Well, the problem is that I doubt any of those tuners will actually get to dyno test the press car so you probably won't be hearing anything from them. I believe SCC will be saying something in their magazine though. Didn't SCC dyno the press car at HKS as well and it made 240 whp? We could always see what a production car dynos on there.

Again, at this point it's not a matter of meeting advertised numbers, but it's a question of why the press car is making 20 whp more than the production cars on 91 octane

I think Turbo442 is probably right in that the press Evo could be hand built, balanced, and blueprinted. That could explain a lot and keep the car well within the specs.

Mark

 

I agree that it is an interesting question. But before we light the torches and storm Mitsubishi's castle, I don't think we've necessarily "proven" anything. Or I should say, I don't think Shiv has proven anything. Ha, big suprise there huh?

Having all the cars together in one place is one thing to insure that testing conditions are the same - ie (temp, elevation, dyno, fuel, hell maybe even use the same four wheels and tires on them all) is one thing. But how about go one step further? In the interest of science, he'd need five examples of each, as in five press cars, five JDM VII's, and so on to prove anything. All we've got now is a few runs on one fluke car to compare to a bunch of test data on USDM Evo VIII's. If anything all he has proven is that production VIII's seem to be very consistent, at least the California examples he's been running. At least you don't have to worry about getting a "Friday afternoon" or "post Saki-break" EVO that doesn't make as much power as the "Post Geisha Girl meeting" EVO.

I thought the question was advertised power, because this all started when he said it only made 20hp more then a WRX, and now 20hp less then the press car. What is the point of having a more expensive dyno that is supposed to have a more accurate way of reading AWHP then a Dynojet if all you have to is add (or subtract) 15%? Is this realtive across all cars no matter what drivetrain?

 

where's the dyno chart?

 

Good idea... I wonder how Shiv's Evo would perform with the ECU from the SCC Evo. Just for ****s and giggles...

 

GPTourer-- Again, I am not suggesting that anyone storm the Mitsubishi castle with torches. My point was that the cars you are reading about, and form your opinions based upon, are likely to be qauntifiably different that the car you pick up at the dealership. Whether or not the production EVO is making 271 horsepower (it probably is on 93 octane ), is not the point . If you can't see the validity in such a statement, then there's nothing more I can say.

Hor-- If a company manufacturer were to say that the only difference between their 310HP car and their 271HP is ECU calibration, wouldn't you attempt such ECU tuning before slapping on your usual array of go-fast mods? That said, I don't think this is necessarily the case as I have yet to be able to extract that much hp through fuel/spark tuning alone.

While I understand your distrust of something you have no first-hand experience with, I would encourage you to look closer at the documented results of other cars (such as WRXs) which benefit quite dramatically from ECU remaps. Typical gains through ECU tuning alone (which adjust fuel, spark and boost) is 30-50 wheel hp. We conduct regular in-house and out-of-state tuning sessions with customers from all over the US and have countless WRXs since we've gained access to their code. All of these cars have yeilded such gains withvirtually no exceptions. On all sorts of dynos as well.

There are also plenty of our WRXs deep in the 12s, running pump gas, full interior and baby seats. The demographics of our customers suggest that there are few willing to gut interiors, dump in c16, run 25+psi of boost, 100 shot of NOS, and such, etc,. just for the purpose of being the fastest, therefore, the best. While such activity may help to raise our status in the world of import drag racing, that is not our primary focus as anyone who has been to our shop can attest to. If you want to go fast, by a Miata, turbocharge it and run 11s. Or better yet, get an R1 or Gixxer liter bike and run 9s. It's much cheaper and thrilling that taking a new 30+K EVO and treating it like a used camaro.

Max Rebo-- The security immobilizer makes it impossible, at this time, to run the SCC EVO's ECU in our car.

Cheers,
shiv

 

Ok im pissed!!!!! i thought by buying this car it would hold its value!!!!! But not when the production version is so watered down! And ya you cant prove it because sent ringers to the magazines to test , and post 0-60/1/4 mile times.
This does really suck, i was expceting a supercar and I have got a riced up kids car!!!!!!!!!
20 whp more than a wrx!!!!!??? 20 less hp than the press driven evo8!!!!!?????
It always seems I get myself into a pickle no matter what it is.
I feel like I have been mislead by Mits. and hope it bites them in their asses. The best we can hope for is a recall like the 320hp cobra's had..........
O YA,,,,,, nobody tell us to just mod the car with this and that.
I buy a new car to have a nice factory warrenty with it, so save the mod crap......... I want what was advertised to be. Mits will need to respond to this.

 

The only way to know who is right is to take the cars to the track. A 20hp difference would certainly make itself known.

 

Shiv, are you guys planning on testing both cars at the track?

 

FWIW, on 93 octane, on our dyno, the EVO is making 190 wheel hp. A WRX, under similiar conditions, is making around 160 wheel (with some '03s making as little as 152-155). The EVO is a substantially stonger car. I just needs 93 octane, unlike the stock WRX, to perform its best.

Coolguy-- We don't plan on doing anything more with the car as it is no longer with us. Whatever happens now will be at the discretion of SCC. However, tech editor Dave and I do share similiar curiousity traits and I wouldn't be surprised if they figure out a way to compare their press EVO to a production one.

Cheer,
shiv

 

From what I've read here, it seems that Vishnu is working on a "chip" for the Evo. Traditionally, Mitsubishi vehicles come with an EPROM for their first year of production (last minute changes are possible this way). It is soldered onto the ECU board. Then they integrate the ROM with the CPU in order to save money. Sometimes this happens during the next production year. Sometimes it happens during the current production year (probably just when they run out of EPROM-based ECU boards).

Shiv, does the Evolution's ECU have an EPROM?

 

i said it once...it looks like the car is tuned for 93 octane and does make 271ish power on 93 octane...its the 91 octane people that r the unfortuante ones

 

Yep. I realize that now. I replied before reading the remaining posts! Oops.

 

Shiv, you said something to the effect that you felt the increase in HP in the SCC EVO may be internally. Will you ever get the chance to spec. the cams between the "Dealer", the "SCC", and the "Japan" EVO 8 or possibly compare the intake and exhaust manifolds for any shaping influence. I use to tune my own 600hp DFI BB Camaro and tend to agree with your questioning, is there anything different inside that would lead towards the 20HP increase. From my previous experince I found that tuning an already close power curve (fuel and timing), usually doesn't increase the HP and Torque evenly throughtout the entire range like you stated the SCC EVO had over the Dealer EVO. It would be interesting to know if there was any help internally with the SCC EVO.

P.S. Note, I personally have never met or have been a customer of Mr. Shiv, but I appreciate his findings and input on these forums. His commets are something I look forward to. Just remember, we only have a very small handful of people out there tuning the US EVO and we should show a little courtesy to all of them. Thanks again.

 

Did Mitsubishi tell you that?

I adjust the stock fuel and timing on my car using DSMLink (www.dsmlink.com). It's not quite a standalone and it's certainly not an S-AFC, but it fills the void between the two quite nicely. What I "distrust" is that this is the stage in the game to spend the big dollars necessary for "ECU tuning." Bolt-ons alone will be enough to see big gains for the Evo. An S-AFC (and of course other supporting bolt-on mods) should be more than enough for 11s on a complete daily driver. Why waste a customer's money on something that is far less than necessary? As an analogy, if someone bought an aftermarket throttle body for a 1G DSM, they might see a small gain if they have other basic supporting mods. However, their money would be MUCH better spent elsewhere, as a 1G TB is good to 600 whp. So why waste the money at a stage in the game where it certainly isn't needed.

You can tell me how well it has worked for WRXs all you want. I'll continue to tell you that until I see otherwise through dyno and track results, that ECU upgrades are very unlikely to be needed at this stage in the game on the Evo. An Evo is a different car than a WRX, and when it comes to going fast, it's a much better car. In other words, don't go standalone to hit 12s.

Sounds a lot like the DSM community, which I'm sure will be a lot like the Evo community. The only difference is that instead of 12s on pump and full interiors, the DSM community has people in the 11s on pump and full interiors. Hell, it has people in the 10s with full interiors (although the pump gas is out the window at that point).

 

Maybe you aren't but others in this thread have expressed concern that Mitsubishi has misled them with false advertising. You also stated at first how the EVO only produced 20hp more then a WRX, which with one car being rated at 271 and the other at 227, again points a finger at Mitsu. I agree that it is very possible that a preproduction car/test mule/prototype or whatever may be different from the cars that are sitting in front of me right now, but it doesn't mean that Mitsu is doing something underhanded. And I maintain that it is "the point" for a lot of us if the EVO is making 271 hp, on some type of "over the counter" gasoline (not race gas).

The reason I am so passionate about this is because I am, like you, a business man. When someone makes disparaging comments about my product, I challenge it. I don't just lay down and accept it.If I said, "If I see another WRX with a Vishnu stage 0 that only runs 13's I will puke." I would think that would offend you. I do believe that using tired and true methods like HKS cams, a $100 MBC, and a $400 Apex'i fuel compter is a good way to tune a 4G63T. HKS has already done the dyno work for me, I don't need one in my house to prove otherwise, nor do I need to pay someone to get 12's because it is so easy with these types of cars. You may find another way to get lots of power out of a EVO and I hope you keep up the good work, I just don't like the sound of some of the conlcusions people are drawing because of what you have said.