The EVO vs. STi is the same as the Supra against the 300ZX TT!
Nov 9, 2005, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Vishnu_Evo8
the issue is partly due to the weaker motor in the sti.
This i Do not agree i know of a few STI's that put well over 500WHP on race gas on the stock motor AANNNDDD the stock clutch. and drive it everyday. kid runs about 22 psi all the time on pump 93with a Utec and a tuner pro. the car that i have in mind has a GT35R so on and so forth
Nov 9, 2005, 08:20 PM
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Boxter engine is the cheapest engine Porche makes and is not well liked in the Porche racing community. This is based upon an expert engine & car builder (builds GT3 cup cars for customers from arround the world, name of his company is Orbit Racing out of Jupiter FL.) who advised my friend not to waste money by modifiying his 05 Boxter engine in his 05 Boxster "S". He stated that it just isn't as reliable and doesn't take well to being modified.
The Evo's 2.0 L engine is noted for being very strong and reliable. Both cars are very good, but the Evo just is a lot easier and cheaper to mod (plus I just don't like the look of the STi).
The Evo's 2.0 L engine is noted for being very strong and reliable. Both cars are very good, but the Evo just is a lot easier and cheaper to mod (plus I just don't like the look of the STi).
Nov 9, 2005, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by trinydex
more rubber is better... i don't see how you're even arguing... if unsprug weight goes up then you get bigger brakes which you should already have and you get more power which is also another requisite for big wheels/tire. and if unsprung weight affects your handling in a way that the larger rubber and coilovers you already have can't cover, then you have a problem that wouldn't be fixed by going to a smaller wheel/tire. hence big *** tires is the ABSOLUTE indication that a car is bad ***.
i also don't tend to care about the national hot rod association, and i like viper sized wheels and vipers aren't for drag racing.
i also don't tend to care about the national hot rod association, and i like viper sized wheels and vipers aren't for drag racing.
What you're telling me is that if you see a car with big wheels, it means that car is "badass." Just because a car has big tires doesn't mean it's "badass." You may THINK it looks "badass," but that's about it. I've been to the track more times than I can count, and I have seen tubbed out cars that don't crack 13s. Sure, they look "badass," and they might even sound it, but in the end, they're all noise. And on the other hand, I've seen cars on 9 inch wide rear tires turn high 8s in the 1/4. Again, your argument is thrown out the window.
While we're on the subject of "bigger tires," would you care to explain how this holds true in drag racing? WHY is it that drag cars use "donuts" on the front? SIMPLE! Because they cause LESS DRAG ON THE TARMAC. Why don't drag cars run on 20 inch wheels? Simple! It's not only because of weight issues, but it takes MORE power and LONGER for larger tires to make a full rotation. By doing so, you're adding time to your ET, as well as more rolling resistance. If you drive in snow, WHY do skinnier tires work better than wide tires? Simple. It's because of less rolling resistance. While thick tires will "pontoon" across snow, or hydroplane in water, skinnier tires will "slice" through the same conditions with much more ease.
I'm not disagreeing with you that wide tires don't help with handlling, because they do, but I'm sorry to inform you, but wide tires aren't always the best, as I already mentioned.
yes subaru is waking up... how much of what you see in the wrc car is trasfered over to the production car? they are difference especially in the suspension area which is what the understeer that i was discussing earlier is all about. plus... understeer is overcome on gravel a lot easier than on tarmac, driving style dictates many things in dirt and it does on tarmac too but to a lesser degree. in the end a good driver can do almost whatever he wants with the car but it's also about the ease and capacity of the car to do it.
greddy makes a great titanium exhaust for the evo that is less than 1000 dollars. find me one for the sti, cuz i need to tell my friend to get that one.
also... it may be true that the domestics are ahead of the jdm tuners on lots of stuff, but... they're not making parts that i want. no fairly priced ti exhaust. where companies like hks and greddy can make these items at a better price (in at least this one instance) because they sell more of them to their target audience. i never said that greddy was the best for everything or anything for that matter, tho i do like the rspec intercooler for its weight and i like the greddy ti exhaust for it's design and price. and that's the other problem... is that if the american companies decided to make these parts they'd be doing very well cuz they are producing for the largest car market in the world, the usa. so i don't see why they don't just get to it.
I totally agree with you that it would be nice to see some of the American manufacturers get into the import scene, because I'd much rather buy their parts. I can't help but laugh when I read about some fool that just spent a premium on stock parts, and then announces it to the world like it's the 2nd coming of Christ because he got "Pink Springs." Congratulations to the fool that just spent a premium on stock parts.
(sarcasm)If you think that these American companies even need to cover the import market to survive, you are sorely mistaken. Who do you really think makes the heads on GM cars? Do you really think GM produces their own heads? Newsflash. Edelbrock has been manufacturing the heads for GM vehicles. You go buy "GM Performance Parts" (GMPP) heads for a V8, and they're Edelbrock heads with a GM part # on them. Edelbrock also manufactured the STOCK heads found on the late LT1 cars (1992-1997), F-Bodies and Corvettes (both aluminum heads), and the Impala SS's (iron heads) alike. Most of these American companies have contracts with manufacturers to manufacture their stock engine parts, ignition parts, etc.
Hell, if you think that's strange, if I'm not mistaken, the STi's VF39 was actually designed by the same company that does Mitsubishi's turbos. If that isn't a conflict of interest, I don't know what is......
Nov 9, 2005, 11:28 PM
#65
Originally Posted by Sinister Subaru
I do apologize for sounding harsh, but you make it extremely clear you know nothing about drag racing, and some of your comments are absolutely laughable.
What you're telling me is that if you see a car with big wheels, it means that car is "badass." Just because a car has big tires doesn't mean it's "badass." You may THINK it looks "badass," but that's about it. I've been to the track more times than I can count, and I have seen tubbed out cars that don't crack 13s. Sure, they look "badass," and they might even sound it, but in the end, they're all noise. And on the other hand, I've seen cars on 9 inch wide rear tires turn high 8s in the 1/4. Again, your argument is thrown out the window.
While we're on the subject of "bigger tires," would you care to explain how this holds true in drag racing? WHY is it that drag cars use "donuts" on the front? SIMPLE! Because they cause LESS DRAG ON THE TARMAC. Why don't drag cars run on 20 inch wheels? Simple! It's not only because of weight issues, but it takes MORE power and LONGER for larger tires to make a full rotation. By doing so, you're adding time to your ET, as well as more rolling resistance. If you drive in snow, WHY do skinnier tires work better than wide tires? Simple. It's because of less rolling resistance. While thick tires will "pontoon" across snow, or hydroplane in water, skinnier tires will "slice" through the same conditions with much more ease.
I'm not disagreeing with you that wide tires don't help with handlling, because they do, but I'm sorry to inform you, but wide tires aren't always the best, as I already mentioned.
You can talk about Subaru "waking up," and believe what you want, and in the end, Subaru STILL has the superior AWD system of the two. Sorry, it's fact. Period. The results are all over WRC, and guess where a good portion of the research and development of Subaru's excellent AWD setup came from......you got it. WRC.
GReddy sucks, and I hope your friend passes on your piece of advice.
Why don't the american manufacturers jump further on to the import bandwagon? Simple. You basically answered your own question. It's because quality parts are going to be more expensive, and the import crowd is made up of about 85% teenie boppers that can't afford to pay for better parts with more research and development put into them.
I totally agree with you that it would be nice to see some of the American manufacturers get into the import scene, because I'd much rather buy their parts. I can't help but laugh when I read about some fool that just spent a premium on stock parts, and then announces it to the world like it's the 2nd coming of Christ because he got "Pink Springs." Congratulations to the fool that just spent a premium on stock parts. (sarcasm)
If you think that these American companies even need to cover the import market to survive, you are sorely mistaken. Who do you really think makes the heads on GM cars? Do you really think GM produces their own heads? Newsflash. Edelbrock has been manufacturing the heads for GM vehicles. You go buy "GM Performance Parts" (GMPP) heads for a V8, and they're Edelbrock heads with a GM part # on them. Edelbrock also manufactured the STOCK heads found on the late LT1 cars (1992-1997), F-Bodies and Corvettes (both aluminum heads), and the Impala SS's (iron heads) alike. Most of these American companies have contracts with manufacturers to manufacture their stock engine parts, ignition parts, etc.
Hell, if you think that's strange, if I'm not mistaken, the STi's VF39 was actually designed by the same company that does Mitsubishi's turbos. If that isn't a conflict of interest, I don't know what is......
What you're telling me is that if you see a car with big wheels, it means that car is "badass." Just because a car has big tires doesn't mean it's "badass." You may THINK it looks "badass," but that's about it. I've been to the track more times than I can count, and I have seen tubbed out cars that don't crack 13s. Sure, they look "badass," and they might even sound it, but in the end, they're all noise. And on the other hand, I've seen cars on 9 inch wide rear tires turn high 8s in the 1/4. Again, your argument is thrown out the window.
While we're on the subject of "bigger tires," would you care to explain how this holds true in drag racing? WHY is it that drag cars use "donuts" on the front? SIMPLE! Because they cause LESS DRAG ON THE TARMAC. Why don't drag cars run on 20 inch wheels? Simple! It's not only because of weight issues, but it takes MORE power and LONGER for larger tires to make a full rotation. By doing so, you're adding time to your ET, as well as more rolling resistance. If you drive in snow, WHY do skinnier tires work better than wide tires? Simple. It's because of less rolling resistance. While thick tires will "pontoon" across snow, or hydroplane in water, skinnier tires will "slice" through the same conditions with much more ease.
I'm not disagreeing with you that wide tires don't help with handlling, because they do, but I'm sorry to inform you, but wide tires aren't always the best, as I already mentioned.
You can talk about Subaru "waking up," and believe what you want, and in the end, Subaru STILL has the superior AWD system of the two. Sorry, it's fact. Period. The results are all over WRC, and guess where a good portion of the research and development of Subaru's excellent AWD setup came from......you got it. WRC.
GReddy sucks, and I hope your friend passes on your piece of advice.
Why don't the american manufacturers jump further on to the import bandwagon? Simple. You basically answered your own question. It's because quality parts are going to be more expensive, and the import crowd is made up of about 85% teenie boppers that can't afford to pay for better parts with more research and development put into them.
I totally agree with you that it would be nice to see some of the American manufacturers get into the import scene, because I'd much rather buy their parts. I can't help but laugh when I read about some fool that just spent a premium on stock parts, and then announces it to the world like it's the 2nd coming of Christ because he got "Pink Springs." Congratulations to the fool that just spent a premium on stock parts.
(sarcasm)If you think that these American companies even need to cover the import market to survive, you are sorely mistaken. Who do you really think makes the heads on GM cars? Do you really think GM produces their own heads? Newsflash. Edelbrock has been manufacturing the heads for GM vehicles. You go buy "GM Performance Parts" (GMPP) heads for a V8, and they're Edelbrock heads with a GM part # on them. Edelbrock also manufactured the STOCK heads found on the late LT1 cars (1992-1997), F-Bodies and Corvettes (both aluminum heads), and the Impala SS's (iron heads) alike. Most of these American companies have contracts with manufacturers to manufacture their stock engine parts, ignition parts, etc.
Hell, if you think that's strange, if I'm not mistaken, the STi's VF39 was actually designed by the same company that does Mitsubishi's turbos. If that isn't a conflict of interest, I don't know what is......
and then i said i don't like drag racing... so... why are we talking about drag racing?
i know of plenty of cars that run 13s that are bad ***... they just happen to make very good times at race tracks and not drag strips.
the thing is american comapnies CAN make parts for cheaper because they're selling to a larger market here in the usa. japan has a major league advantage right now because many times they're hte only provider... but if that weren't the case then they'd lose thier foothold here adn the american companies could take a larger portion of the pie. it's just not been done yet. if japan can make all these things for our car... and make money selling them overseas with taxes and all that... what makes you think american companies can't take that over? to me... ti's just a matter of inertia at the moment... there WILL be a large market change sooner or later... and everyone will share in the pie. american companies don't know everything about import cars yet... they need to find motivated people that wanna see things happen and once they get the ball rolling things will pan out. you can see the showings at sema every year... more and more american companies putting out more and more import car goodies.
and also you're contradicting yourself... jdm is a premium price... yet these teenie boppers can't pay for it... is it one or the other?
now you're gonna talk about awd systems? did you know that the wrc lancer is not running electronically controlled diffs? mitsu is not USING their awd system...
dude... i NEVER said that american companies need to sell ANYTHING for import cars... there are so many mustangs in america they could live off it forever... but are they a corp that needs and wants to make more? yes. and will they... YES. and will they do so by selling to the import crowd too? of course...
Last edited by trinydex; Nov 9, 2005 at 11:46 PM.
Nov 10, 2005, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by EVO-8-Nate
The Supra came out and was a great answer to the 300ZX TT. I am a Z fan so it pains me to say this but the Supra was better than the Z in Braking, 0-60, 1/8 mile/ 1/4 mile/ HP potential/ Lateral G's/ you get the point! The aftermarket support for the Supra was awesome and it flurished soon you had many 1,000+ Rwhp Supras rolling around. The poor Z didn't get much support (Stillen/ JWT) and the support that they had was rediculously over priced and under engineered. So the 300ZX TT took ten years to get to where it is now in regards to aftermarket support. The 300ZX TT is a very capable car and has proven to be a very good bang for the buc alternative for people looking for a used turbo car.
To get to the point I feel that the STi kind of falls in line with the 300ZX TT and the EVO is like the Supra. What do you guys think? Do you agree?
-Nate
To get to the point I feel that the STi kind of falls in line with the 300ZX TT and the EVO is like the Supra. What do you guys think? Do you agree?
-Nate
On a side note, driving the Z and the EVO back to back is a strange experience. My modded Z makes the EVO feel slow in straight line, but the EVO's chassis/steering/brakes/suspension all work so incredibly well together.. it's just a joy to drive.
Nov 10, 2005, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by trinydex
wow... you know everything about reading... i said i don't like drag racing in every way you can in car speak without saying it. why would i like drag racing if i had viper wheels on every corner? why would i like drag racing if i said get big brakes? why would i like drag racing if unsprung weight is is the concern of your COILOVERS.
and then i said i don't like drag racing... so... why are we talking about drag racing?
i know of plenty of cars that run 13s that are bad ***... they just happen to make very good times at race tracks and not drag strips.
the thing is american comapnies CAN make parts for cheaper because they're selling to a larger market here in the usa. japan has a major league advantage right now because many times they're hte only provider... but if that weren't the case then they'd lose thier foothold here adn the american companies could take a larger portion of the pie. it's just not been done yet. if japan can make all these things for our car... and make money selling them overseas with taxes and all that... what makes you think american companies can't take that over? to me... ti's just a matter of inertia at the moment... there WILL be a large market change sooner or later... and everyone will share in the pie. american companies don't know everything about import cars yet... they need to find motivated people that wanna see things happen and once they get the ball rolling things will pan out. you can see the showings at sema every year... more and more american companies putting out more and more import car goodies.
and also you're contradicting yourself... jdm is a premium price... yet these teenie boppers can't pay for it... is it one or the other?
now you're gonna talk about awd systems? did you know that the wrc lancer is not running electronically controlled diffs? mitsu is not USING their awd system...
dude... i NEVER said that american companies need to sell ANYTHING for import cars... there are so many mustangs in america they could live off it forever... but are they a corp that needs and wants to make more? yes. and will they... YES. and will they do so by selling to the import crowd too? of course...
and then i said i don't like drag racing... so... why are we talking about drag racing?
i know of plenty of cars that run 13s that are bad ***... they just happen to make very good times at race tracks and not drag strips.
the thing is american comapnies CAN make parts for cheaper because they're selling to a larger market here in the usa. japan has a major league advantage right now because many times they're hte only provider... but if that weren't the case then they'd lose thier foothold here adn the american companies could take a larger portion of the pie. it's just not been done yet. if japan can make all these things for our car... and make money selling them overseas with taxes and all that... what makes you think american companies can't take that over? to me... ti's just a matter of inertia at the moment... there WILL be a large market change sooner or later... and everyone will share in the pie. american companies don't know everything about import cars yet... they need to find motivated people that wanna see things happen and once they get the ball rolling things will pan out. you can see the showings at sema every year... more and more american companies putting out more and more import car goodies.
and also you're contradicting yourself... jdm is a premium price... yet these teenie boppers can't pay for it... is it one or the other?
now you're gonna talk about awd systems? did you know that the wrc lancer is not running electronically controlled diffs? mitsu is not USING their awd system...
dude... i NEVER said that american companies need to sell ANYTHING for import cars... there are so many mustangs in america they could live off it forever... but are they a corp that needs and wants to make more? yes. and will they... YES. and will they do so by selling to the import crowd too? of course...
Last edited by Sinister Subaru; Nov 10, 2005 at 02:56 AM.
Nov 10, 2005, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by WrX Kila
HATA!!!!
An LS2 GTO would come close to 600+hp with a supercharger install. Maybe not 600 whp, but 600 hp is attainable.
A pre 2006 (405hp) Z06 wouldn't be hard to get 600 hp out of with a supercharger install.
Did I mention a Viper? I'd say about 750+hp, again, with a supercharger install.
And yep, it's "touche."
Nov 10, 2005, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Assassin
I thought STI's were faster than EVO's stock for stock.
I think it was Motor Trend that just tested, or somebody else, and the Evo was .1 faster, and about 5 mph faster in their trap speed. The STi only managed to trap 99.x mph. That's one slow-*** STi.
Nov 10, 2005, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sinister Subaru
They were, but now they're just about even. It's going to be a driver's race.
I think it was Motor Trend that just tested, or somebody else, and the Evo was .1 faster, and about 5 mph faster in their trap speed. The STi only managed to trap 99.x mph. That's one slow-*** STi.
I think it was Motor Trend that just tested, or somebody else, and the Evo was .1 faster, and about 5 mph faster in their trap speed. The STi only managed to trap 99.x mph. That's one slow-*** STi.
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