Mark and I used to butt heads but through time I have developed a lot of respect for his hard work and dedication to the car tuner lifestyle

I think I can say that we both work very hard and take a lot of pride in what we do and strive to do our best to offer a quality product at a fair price.

IMHO there is no need for anyone in the evo community customer or otherwise to speak in a negative tone regarding any of these products

 

Hopefully my addition to this thread will be taken as constructive rather than an "attack" in any way.
So here it goes.
First off, "closed loop status" can be adjusted. It can be tuned, and made to increase drivability. Closed loop simply allows the vehicle to maintain a stioch A/F ratio. That is all. Without getting into too many specifics, Adjusting fuel trims and ignition values alone will affect final A/F values, long term fuel correction and drivability in the entire load and rpm range.
Second, Load bearing dynos have proven time and time again that they SHOULD be used when even concidering mail in flashing as a technique to increase a customers cars power output without physically getting your hands on it.
If you can not mimic real world response then you can not accurate set MBT among many other paramters.
Also Dynojet was a little too late to come out with a load bearing option. They must have seen the writing on the wall.
Thirdly, There shouldn't be any reason to change the mapping when doing mail in flashes. The dynamics from car to car rarely change on similar mods, UNLESS there are mechanical differences, air leaks, damage, weather related differences etc.
The stock ecu will calculate for ambient conditions so that shouldn't cause an issue.
Of course if the "tools" being used to adjust the EFI system of the particular vehicle aren't compatible or up to par, then changes in the mapping is required to keep everyone "safe"
If the mapping is correct little difference will be seen from car to car. After all running a MAF based EFI system, the EVO should be able to calculate for variations in various ambient conditions.
Now dyno numbers may vary, but track times should tell the tale. I would hope you agree with this. My two cents

Nick
Precision Dyno

 

I was gonna go with dynoflash but i could not afford to have my car down for a couple of days. Luckily TT was coming down to texas to do reflashes so i chose them.

 

Hey Nick, hopefully I will be comming to see you soon to "FIX" my car. I was going to swap on a Hotside and an AEM EMS and of course some Alky to the mix. Looking for 117MPH traps. The reasons I haven't came by in a while is I had to makes some repairs to my Evo, I shoudl be by by the end of the year.

 

First off ...

Yes you can change them .. but the stock ecu will correct ... to a stoich condition very rapidly ..probably within a minute...

Take an afc car for example .. pull out 20 % at idle .. the car will stumble. . wait ,,, wait .... wait .. the car will correct ..back to 14.7 within a minute..

What does that tell us ... Well...... that the stock computer corrects fuel in closed loop condition.. while on highway , idle ect ..

I'd love for you to get into specifics as i have a hard time understanding what you are talking about.. as im sure many of the readers do as well..

It was my understanding you were to stay out of threads having to do with dynoflash and myself. The title to the post was dynoflash or TT ... not dynoflash turbotrix and precision...

Secondly ...

I purchased my dynojet .. 4yrs ago ..and had the option of getting the load option ... and chose not to. I personally dont like mustang dyno's as you have the ability to manipulate the output on any vehicle you have on there. You can make a 300 hp evo .... get 800 hp with the touch of a few keys..



Mark
turbotrix

 

Lost me again .... A flash is exactly that .. changing the mapping of fuel and igntion. Hence the reason you'll pick up 20 - 30 whp on a bone stock car. Why ???? Mitsubishi shipped the evo with very low igntion timing and very rich fuel mixtures. Since you dont do mail in flashes i can understand your ignorance in this matter .. Im sure al will chime in and try and further explain the benefits of mail in flashes

Mark
Turbotrix

 

Thank you for responding.
Lets touch base on the topic first. I did not come in here stating anything about either of your reputations. As a matter of fact I am glad that you and Al are friends again. It puts alot of information into perspective.
Also, I would like to add that last time I checked the thread was started by a member of this forum that asked his opinion on your two companys in EVO GENERAL.Meaning that any informtion that I can help with I should. I in no way bashed you or Al. Just helping to get some information out there.
As you may remember we spoke on the phone Mark and we squashed any problem we had with each other. I have always and to this day left it as such.

Now back to the post. I read a post you made about closed loop status and strongly disagree with your findings. BUT what we can do is have a technical discussion if you like in another forum so that you don't feel obligated to answer any of my thoughts, questions or comments.

The Basic facts are that in an EFI controlled vehicle, like I mentioned earlier, Closed loop only controlls the vehicles ability to perform feedback operation under certain load, rpm and temperature parameters.
"closed loop status" can be adjusted and made better (better drivability and gas mileage)
Thank you for your time and let me know what forum you would like me to post specifics on.
I apoligize to the customer for going off topic.

Nick
Precision Dyno

 

I am sorry that you feel this way. We have the option to do mail in flashes. The problem with that type of technique is we feel that a customer should get their moneys worth out of a flash if it were tuned specifically for their modifications rather, than just a generic mapping scheme to get "them done".

Nick
Precision Dyno

 

A closed loop condition cannot operate under load ... that would be called open loop. Since the flashes will only control open loop , again i have a hard time understanding your thought process. i can make the fuel map values zero .. in the closed loop section of an ecu .. the car will start and correct fuel accordinly ... Are you implying that you can take a flash car .. to a 16.0 AFR on the highway /???? this would be an amazing discovery ..

The temperature enrichment map , knock map and warm up maps are one in the same. With the techtom system you have much better understanding of how the ecu actually works, how many fuel maps and igntion maps there are ect...

Mark
Turbotrix

 

I thought I had remembered reading somewhere that Al would pay you back for getting a rental car while your car was down, if it was getting a mail in flash, by him.

I could be wrong though

 

Hence the reason its 200 dollars cheaper then a custom tune .. thats about 100 dollars lower then your license fee.. So i can see how mail in ecu's wouldnt be an option for you ...

Mark
Turbotrix

 

I just wanted to chime in that I've had a TurboTrix tune since Feb '05 on my ESP autocross Evo. I run only the stock boost controls (solenoid) at stock boost levels. I wanted to maximize torque during the tune, so Mark tuned my car to get 297whp/302wtq on 93 oct, Mustang dyno. I've been extremely happy with the car's performance that has allowed the car to compete head-to-head with a local 2-time ESP national champion and win, when the driver was good enough.

With rule changes to permit increased boost in 2006, I plan to probably go the UTEC route and have Mark do both a street tune and race gas (w/ higher boost) tune. I am very particular in the mods I do to my car because I also have to drive it daily and don't want to do anything that will risk the motor. I've seen Mark tune 30 Evos in Texas over the past eight months and completely trust his expertise and work. Also he is personally a nice guy and will always shoot you straight.

Mark B.

 

hey Al, where did u go? help chime in on this closed loop matter, because i understand that a car cant be tuned in closed loop, so obviously u cant tune at part throttle. this is why u tune just for WOT in open loop.
in honda and acura using hondata, or uberdata for that matter, u can leave the car in open loop all the time allowing u to tune part throttle. i was always under the impression that both of u used something similar to this to tune a car. any help would be appreciated!

 

i wonder how much a dynoflash costs, if he only moves the rev limiter and removes the boost cut?

 

are u serious? u cant be! this is all on his site, www.dynoflash.com c'mon ur messing with a useful thread!