DSM 4G63 vs. Evo 4G63
Feb 19, 2006, 01:30 PM
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DSM 4G63 vs. Evo 4G63
My question is what are the major differences if there are any between the engines, Any specs that have been increased or decreased from the dsm to the evo. TIA
Feb 19, 2006, 01:44 PM
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so if thats the case they are actually both capable of the same power with the same mods, i mean if you basically built he motor and increase with the same turbo on both they would be pretty identical power outputs, am i correct in assuming this?
Feb 19, 2006, 01:48 PM
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The older 4g63 "DSM" (Diamond Star Motors is a Chrysler affiliation FYI, the Evo does not suffer from this handicap) I believe the DSM 4g63 use cast pistons and rods and the 2nd gen use 7 bolt forged cranks. The 1g DSM's use forged rods, cast pistons and the generally regarded "much stronger" 6 bolt crank.
The Evo's 7 bolt crank is a world different from both.
I have several friends with DSM's, basically everyone we've pushed past 380 whp has given up the ghost. Now, thats not STONE and my facts need work, but NO, they are not capable of the same power or durability.
The Evo's 7 bolt crank is a world different from both.
I have several friends with DSM's, basically everyone we've pushed past 380 whp has given up the ghost. Now, thats not STONE and my facts need work, but NO, they are not capable of the same power or durability.
Feb 19, 2006, 02:06 PM
#6
Sorry but thats not true...
There are plenty of people running very powerful cars on stock DSM motors. Shane from Elite motorsports was using a 7-bolt DSM crank (Yes the worse version) and made over 700 and the motor didnt go.
There are also a handful of DSMers making over 600 on the stock block. Remember these motors are not brand new and many of them have over 100k on them.
And I have had plenty of DSMs and have a few friends that have them. They will easily take over 400 if treated properly. When they get built they can take over a thousand (Just like ours).
There are plenty of people running very powerful cars on stock DSM motors. Shane from Elite motorsports was using a 7-bolt DSM crank (Yes the worse version) and made over 700 and the motor didnt go.
There are also a handful of DSMers making over 600 on the stock block. Remember these motors are not brand new and many of them have over 100k on them.
And I have had plenty of DSMs and have a few friends that have them. They will easily take over 400 if treated properly. When they get built they can take over a thousand (Just like ours).
Feb 19, 2006, 02:10 PM
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Exactly what TrinaBabe said. DSM's are 7-17 years old. Most of the motors are tired compared to the Evo's. The Evo head flows more than the DSM head and also has some small changes. One that wasn't mentioned yet is the Evo has ligheter rocker arms than DSM rockers.
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Feb 19, 2006, 02:15 PM
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these are all very good points, how about with the mivec head? is it safe to say that its a slightley different motor now or will people just argue that its just the head.
Feb 19, 2006, 03:10 PM
#10
Originally Posted by TrinaBabe
Sorry but thats not true...
There are plenty of people running very powerful cars on stock DSM motors. Shane from Elite motorsports was using a 7-bolt DSM crank (Yes the worse version) and made over 700 and the motor didnt go.
There are also a handful of DSMers making over 600 on the stock block. Remember these motors are not brand new and many of them have over 100k on them.
And I have had plenty of DSMs and have a few friends that have them. They will easily take over 400 if treated properly. When they get built they can take over a thousand (Just like ours).
There are plenty of people running very powerful cars on stock DSM motors. Shane from Elite motorsports was using a 7-bolt DSM crank (Yes the worse version) and made over 700 and the motor didnt go.
There are also a handful of DSMers making over 600 on the stock block. Remember these motors are not brand new and many of them have over 100k on them.
And I have had plenty of DSMs and have a few friends that have them. They will easily take over 400 if treated properly. When they get built they can take over a thousand (Just like ours).
Feb 19, 2006, 03:11 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Aikido
these are all very good points, how about with the mivec head? is it safe to say that its a slightley different motor now or will people just argue that its just the head.
I believe it's just the hydraulic cam gear on the intake side.
Feb 19, 2006, 03:22 PM
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Coming from a modded 2G DSM to my Evo, I'd like to add something.
On my DSM, (GST btw=FWD) I had mods that pretty much equaled what an EVO comes with stock:
EVOIII 16g (boost at 21psi), 550 cc injectors, FMIC, walbro 190lph fuel pump and some other misc stuff. The only major difference really would be the addition of a 3" catback.
Now, from a roll, my GST felt WAY faster. From a stop is another story because the GST severly lacked traction.
I don't know if the GST was just tuned better or what. I know that Evo's come stock running pig rich so that might be why.
I never dyno'd the eclipse so I don't have any numbers to back up my claims but seat of the pants, I think my eclipse was faster from a roll...
I guess I'll just have to get an exhaust on the Evo and see how much difference that makes. I'm assuming it's going to be significant because it was on my other car.
On my DSM, (GST btw=FWD) I had mods that pretty much equaled what an EVO comes with stock:
EVOIII 16g (boost at 21psi), 550 cc injectors, FMIC, walbro 190lph fuel pump and some other misc stuff. The only major difference really would be the addition of a 3" catback.
Now, from a roll, my GST felt WAY faster. From a stop is another story because the GST severly lacked traction.
I don't know if the GST was just tuned better or what. I know that Evo's come stock running pig rich so that might be why.
I never dyno'd the eclipse so I don't have any numbers to back up my claims but seat of the pants, I think my eclipse was faster from a roll...
I guess I'll just have to get an exhaust on the Evo and see how much difference that makes. I'm assuming it's going to be significant because it was on my other car.
Feb 19, 2006, 03:30 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by feldguy
The Evo's 7 bolt crank is a world different from both.
I have several friends with DSM's, basically everyone we've pushed past 380 whp has given up the ghost.
I have several friends with DSM's, basically everyone we've pushed past 380 whp has given up the ghost.
Originally Posted by TrinaBabe
Sorry but thats not true...
There are plenty of people running very powerful cars on stock DSM motors. Shane from Elite motorsports was using a 7-bolt DSM crank (Yes the worse version) and made over 700 and the motor didnt go.
There are plenty of people running very powerful cars on stock DSM motors. Shane from Elite motorsports was using a 7-bolt DSM crank (Yes the worse version) and made over 700 and the motor didnt go.
I will agree that the Evo 7-bolt is different, but if people figure out how to properly build 2G 7-bolts without CW that it may be a moot point.
Feb 19, 2006, 04:26 PM
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internet made crankwalk such a big deal. Out of the many dsm friends i know, just one had signs of CW. Most dsm motor go because of spinning rod bearings. DSMs break because they have weaker/older drivetrain parts than the evo. That's the only difference i see.
Feb 19, 2006, 05:13 PM
#15
Originally Posted by tony_b
Coming from a modded 2G DSM to my Evo, I'd like to add something.
On my DSM, (GST btw=FWD) I had mods that pretty much equaled what an EVO comes with stock:
EVOIII 16g (boost at 21psi), 550 cc injectors, FMIC, walbro 190lph fuel pump and some other misc stuff. The only major difference really would be the addition of a 3" catback.
Now, from a roll, my GST felt WAY faster. From a stop is another story because the GST severly lacked traction.
I don't know if the GST was just tuned better or what. I know that Evo's come stock running pig rich so that might be why.
I never dyno'd the eclipse so I don't have any numbers to back up my claims but seat of the pants, I think my eclipse was faster from a roll...
I guess I'll just have to get an exhaust on the Evo and see how much difference that makes. I'm assuming it's going to be significant because it was on my other car.
On my DSM, (GST btw=FWD) I had mods that pretty much equaled what an EVO comes with stock:
EVOIII 16g (boost at 21psi), 550 cc injectors, FMIC, walbro 190lph fuel pump and some other misc stuff. The only major difference really would be the addition of a 3" catback.
Now, from a roll, my GST felt WAY faster. From a stop is another story because the GST severly lacked traction.
I don't know if the GST was just tuned better or what. I know that Evo's come stock running pig rich so that might be why.
I never dyno'd the eclipse so I don't have any numbers to back up my claims but seat of the pants, I think my eclipse was faster from a roll...
I guess I'll just have to get an exhaust on the Evo and see how much difference that makes. I'm assuming it's going to be significant because it was on my other car.
