EVO weight loss results
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RA29
shiv really cant talk about the difference's of the STi and the EVO, but i will do some speculation for you....
each car will have its own loyal following, for very different reasons. the sti will appeal more to the true rally guy. the suspension will more likely be softer than the EVO, and the car will feel "heavier". i do believe that the sti suspension will be suited better for off road, and crappy urban streets (pot holes). for the guy/gal who wants untimate grip all the time, and a lighter (dare i say lithe) feel, the EVO wins. but the sti will be more utilitarian. the sti probably will be harder to drive at 8-10/10ths. to get the same sort of handling out of the sti you are probably talking about coilovers, and high spring rates. this translates into a crappy daily driver, and your kidneys will be bruised after any drive that last longer than 1 hour. i will be living in tahoe, and commuting to the Bay Area. i am having a hard time deciding what is better for me as well. in tahoe the sti will rule, but in the Bay Area the EVO will rule the roost. what to do?
power wise, the sti will probably out accelerate the EVO. and the low end grunt of the 2.5l ej25 will be better for around town driving (although the twin scroll 4g i hear isnt bad). but the sti car will have a lower red line, and wont like to be wound up as much as the EVO. but again at altitude, the 2.5 will be able to push more of that thinner air. but when i say faster, it wont be by much. i think. what to do?
the tranny is kinda a wash on both. the sti 6sp is proving to be vary durable, but the gearing is a bit to be desired. 3 shifts to 60 is too much IMO. the EVO 5sp is fairly reliable. But i bet the more power people start to put to the ground, the more tranny failures we will see. not as bad as the glassy wrx 5 sp tranny, but more than you think. i give the advantage to the EVo for gearing.
i like the interior of the sti better, but i really dont care much either way. they are both nice. the EVO seems to have a smidge more room in the back seats.
Aesthetically, i like the EVO a bit better, but i have yet to see the new face lift in person. the new look has really grown on me, and i think it will be a toss up once i have seen both. they both will look sick woth 17x9 advan RCII's
.
i am looking forward to the comparison results that SCC did. either way, i think they are both awesome cars, and you are in a win win situation.
good luck with your decision
josh
ps this is mostly speculation, just a reminder
shiv really cant talk about the difference's of the STi and the EVO, but i will do some speculation for you....
each car will have its own loyal following, for very different reasons. the sti will appeal more to the true rally guy. the suspension will more likely be softer than the EVO, and the car will feel "heavier". i do believe that the sti suspension will be suited better for off road, and crappy urban streets (pot holes). for the guy/gal who wants untimate grip all the time, and a lighter (dare i say lithe) feel, the EVO wins. but the sti will be more utilitarian. the sti probably will be harder to drive at 8-10/10ths. to get the same sort of handling out of the sti you are probably talking about coilovers, and high spring rates. this translates into a crappy daily driver, and your kidneys will be bruised after any drive that last longer than 1 hour. i will be living in tahoe, and commuting to the Bay Area. i am having a hard time deciding what is better for me as well. in tahoe the sti will rule, but in the Bay Area the EVO will rule the roost. what to do?
power wise, the sti will probably out accelerate the EVO. and the low end grunt of the 2.5l ej25 will be better for around town driving (although the twin scroll 4g i hear isnt bad). but the sti car will have a lower red line, and wont like to be wound up as much as the EVO. but again at altitude, the 2.5 will be able to push more of that thinner air. but when i say faster, it wont be by much. i think. what to do?
the tranny is kinda a wash on both. the sti 6sp is proving to be vary durable, but the gearing is a bit to be desired. 3 shifts to 60 is too much IMO. the EVO 5sp is fairly reliable. But i bet the more power people start to put to the ground, the more tranny failures we will see. not as bad as the glassy wrx 5 sp tranny, but more than you think. i give the advantage to the EVo for gearing.
i like the interior of the sti better, but i really dont care much either way. they are both nice. the EVO seems to have a smidge more room in the back seats.
Aesthetically, i like the EVO a bit better, but i have yet to see the new face lift in person. the new look has really grown on me, and i think it will be a toss up once i have seen both. they both will look sick woth 17x9 advan RCII's
.i am looking forward to the comparison results that SCC did. either way, i think they are both awesome cars, and you are in a win win situation.
good luck with your decision
josh
ps this is mostly speculation, just a reminder
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
I'm anything but unbiased. So please don't put too much weight in my preference. After all, it is just that... a preference. And it's based upon my particular driving habits which, as some will testify, is quite enthusiastic by even enthusiast's standards. Also keep in mind that I already have two Subarus so I'm somewhat accustomed to how they drive and what to expect from them. While I'm not bored of them, they are becoming awfully familiar.
That said, my preference is the EVO. To me, it's a better fit. It does all the little, but very important, things very well. During threshold braking, the pedal is still high and firm enough to heel/toe blip without unwanted braking modulation. The steering wheel colunn doesn't get in the way of my knees (I'm 6' tall with long legs). The brake pedal is wide enough for left foot braking. The door panel doesn't rub the side of my knee when I use it to brace myself. The seats hold me well enough so I don't have to exert myself to keep upright. The shifter is quick and positive enough to double-clutch into first gear at 20mph, time after time again, without looking like a dork. The steering is super-quick but has enough feedback and self-centering traits to keep from over-correcting from a botched slide. At the limit, it's not an idiot-proof, dumbed-down car that is designed to keep uninterested drivers on the road, pointing in the right direction. It only plows when you enter a turn too fast or get on the gas too hard. It's super stable, yet totally placeable during trailing throttle/braking.
The STi does have it's strengths, of course. And they should be fairly obvious. Nothing short of a 911 turbo will compare to the way it absolutely launches out of tight turns. Short gearing and lots of immediate, lag-free torque will make you smile There's more but that will have to wait until May 
But personally, I'm more comfortable with making more power than making something handle/ride better. While both involve juggling compromise, the latter is a lot more subjective and harder to quantify and even harder to appreciate without some driver committment.
But keep in mind that I'd be perfectly have happy owning either car. But given the current situation, I'm not at all unhappy having gone with the EVO. But it's still early and I have yet to get my tuning paws on the STi. Preferences may change. And then they may change back again. It never ends. Both are awesome cars. Great in their own environments. A fellow journalist who I trust prefered the STi for its muscle-car traits. Different strokes for different folks.
Cheers,
shiv
That said, my preference is the EVO. To me, it's a better fit. It does all the little, but very important, things very well. During threshold braking, the pedal is still high and firm enough to heel/toe blip without unwanted braking modulation. The steering wheel colunn doesn't get in the way of my knees (I'm 6' tall with long legs). The brake pedal is wide enough for left foot braking. The door panel doesn't rub the side of my knee when I use it to brace myself. The seats hold me well enough so I don't have to exert myself to keep upright. The shifter is quick and positive enough to double-clutch into first gear at 20mph, time after time again, without looking like a dork. The steering is super-quick but has enough feedback and self-centering traits to keep from over-correcting from a botched slide. At the limit, it's not an idiot-proof, dumbed-down car that is designed to keep uninterested drivers on the road, pointing in the right direction. It only plows when you enter a turn too fast or get on the gas too hard. It's super stable, yet totally placeable during trailing throttle/braking.
The STi does have it's strengths, of course. And they should be fairly obvious. Nothing short of a 911 turbo will compare to the way it absolutely launches out of tight turns. Short gearing and lots of immediate, lag-free torque will make you smile
There's more but that will have to wait until May But personally, I'm more comfortable with making more power than making something handle/ride better. While both involve juggling compromise, the latter is a lot more subjective and harder to quantify and even harder to appreciate without some driver committment.
But keep in mind that I'd be perfectly have happy owning either car. But given the current situation, I'm not at all unhappy having gone with the EVO. But it's still early and I have yet to get my tuning paws on the STi. Preferences may change. And then they may change back again. It never ends. Both are awesome cars. Great in their own environments. A fellow journalist who I trust prefered the STi for its muscle-car traits. Different strokes for different folks.
Cheers,
shiv
Last edited by shiv@vishnu; Apr 8, 2003 at 02:48 AM.
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Originally posted by RA29
What sort of wheels you got 3171?
What sort of wheels you got 3171?
Also look at getting a lighter flywheel when your clutch burns out (this should not take long)
Last edited by 3171; Apr 8, 2003 at 03:59 AM.
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Originally posted by TearItUpSports
I can hear Claudius saying "I told you so."
He has been saying all along that the extra weight is due to a stiffer chasis, and not US stuff.
I can hear Claudius saying "I told you so."
He has been saying all along that the extra weight is due to a stiffer chasis, and not US stuff.
Shiv: did you take out the spare wheel and jack? ABS weighs about 20 lbs, A/C about 45, sound deadening in EURO spec not worth the hassle (10 lbs). Only mentioning things that would leave it look like stock inside. 2 piece brake rotors with aluminum bell?
Originally posted by Takashi
Carbon fiber hood and trunk + Forged magnesium rims will lighten the car more.
I rather have those done than sacrifice safety.
Carbon fiber hood and trunk + Forged magnesium rims will lighten the car more.
I rather have those done than sacrifice safety.
Dude is that Kristin Kreuk? in you link.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 109
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From: SF
Originally posted by Takashi
Carbon fiber hood and trunk + Forged magnesium rims will lighten the car more.
I rather have those done than sacrifice safety.
Carbon fiber hood and trunk + Forged magnesium rims will lighten the car more.
I rather have those done than sacrifice safety.
Originally posted by shiv@vishnu
I'm anything but unbiased. So please don't put too much weight in my preference. After all, it is just that... a preference. And it's based upon my particular driving habits which, as some will testify, is quite enthusiastic by even enthusiast's standards. Also keep in mind that I already have two Subarus so I'm somewhat accustomed to how they drive and what to expect from them. While I'm not bored of them, they are becoming awfully familiar.
That said, my preference is the EVO. To me, it's a better fit. It does all the little, but very important, things very well. During threshold braking, the pedal is still high and firm enough to heel/toe blip without unwanted braking modulation. The steering wheel colunn doesn't get in the way of my knees (I'm 6' tall with long legs). The brake pedal is wide enough for left foot braking. The door panel doesn't rub the side of my knee when I use it to brace myself. The seats hold me well enough so I don't have to exert myself to keep upright. The shifter is quick and positive enough to double-clutch into first gear at 20mph, time after time again, without looking like a dork. The steering is super-quick but has enough feedback and self-centering traits to keep from over-correcting from a botched slide. At the limit, it's not an idiot-proof, dumbed-down car that is designed to keep uninterested drivers on the road, pointing in the right direction. It only plows when you enter a turn too fast or get on the gas too hard. It's super stable, yet totally placeable during trailing throttle/braking.
The STi does have it's strengths, of course. And they should be fairly obvious. Nothing short of a 911 turbo will compare to the way it absolutely launches out of tight turns. Short gearing and lots of immediate, lag-free torque will make you smile There's more but that will have to wait until May
But personally, I'm more comfortable with making more power than making something handle/ride better. While both involve juggling compromise, the latter is a lot more subjective and harder to quantify and even harder to appreciate without some driver committment.
But keep in mind that I'd be perfectly have happy owning either car. But given the current situation, I'm not at all unhappy having gone with the EVO. But it's still early and I have yet to get my tuning paws on the STi. Preferences may change. And then they may change back again. It never ends. Both are awesome cars. Great in their own environments. A fellow journalist who I trust prefered the STi for its muscle-car traits. Different strokes for different folks.
Cheers,
shiv
I'm anything but unbiased. So please don't put too much weight in my preference. After all, it is just that... a preference. And it's based upon my particular driving habits which, as some will testify, is quite enthusiastic by even enthusiast's standards. Also keep in mind that I already have two Subarus so I'm somewhat accustomed to how they drive and what to expect from them. While I'm not bored of them, they are becoming awfully familiar.
That said, my preference is the EVO. To me, it's a better fit. It does all the little, but very important, things very well. During threshold braking, the pedal is still high and firm enough to heel/toe blip without unwanted braking modulation. The steering wheel colunn doesn't get in the way of my knees (I'm 6' tall with long legs). The brake pedal is wide enough for left foot braking. The door panel doesn't rub the side of my knee when I use it to brace myself. The seats hold me well enough so I don't have to exert myself to keep upright. The shifter is quick and positive enough to double-clutch into first gear at 20mph, time after time again, without looking like a dork. The steering is super-quick but has enough feedback and self-centering traits to keep from over-correcting from a botched slide. At the limit, it's not an idiot-proof, dumbed-down car that is designed to keep uninterested drivers on the road, pointing in the right direction. It only plows when you enter a turn too fast or get on the gas too hard. It's super stable, yet totally placeable during trailing throttle/braking.
The STi does have it's strengths, of course. And they should be fairly obvious. Nothing short of a 911 turbo will compare to the way it absolutely launches out of tight turns. Short gearing and lots of immediate, lag-free torque will make you smile
There's more but that will have to wait until May But personally, I'm more comfortable with making more power than making something handle/ride better. While both involve juggling compromise, the latter is a lot more subjective and harder to quantify and even harder to appreciate without some driver committment.
But keep in mind that I'd be perfectly have happy owning either car. But given the current situation, I'm not at all unhappy having gone with the EVO. But it's still early and I have yet to get my tuning paws on the STi. Preferences may change. And then they may change back again. It never ends. Both are awesome cars. Great in their own environments. A fellow journalist who I trust prefered the STi for its muscle-car traits. Different strokes for different folks.
Cheers,
shiv
If I was a short midget (I am 6'3" - maybe i would think differently - but for anyone over 6' the evo is the best answer)
The STI is a great car and my new best motoring video shows the jdm 2.0 l version with twin scroll beating the evo vii at time attack - - the old sti was a looser to the evo
Its going to be a toss up - they are both sweet cars - but teh handling of the evo and breaking are superior to the suby IMHO
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From: Seattle
Thanks for your perspective Alfried. I'm racking my brain trying to make the right choice.
I want it all: Handling & braking on the track, power on the street, quality, durability and looks.
I'm guessing the 2.5 liter STi will have more power potential... at least with reasonable spool up.
As for the brakes, aren't they both 4 pot Brembos with 12.7" rotors? With the same weight and if you put comparable tires on them, I would think they'd be close.
I might put 2 piece rotors on. Love my StopTechs.
Russ
I want it all: Handling & braking on the track, power on the street, quality, durability and looks.
I'm guessing the 2.5 liter STi will have more power potential... at least with reasonable spool up.
As for the brakes, aren't they both 4 pot Brembos with 12.7" rotors? With the same weight and if you put comparable tires on them, I would think they'd be close.
I might put 2 piece rotors on. Love my StopTechs.
Russ
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Originally posted by Alfriedesq
The STI is a great car and my new best motoring video shows the jdm 2.0 l version with twin scroll beating the evo vii at time attack - - the old sti was a looser to the evo
Its going to be a toss up - they are both sweet cars - but teh handling of the evo and breaking are superior to the suby IMHO
The STI is a great car and my new best motoring video shows the jdm 2.0 l version with twin scroll beating the evo vii at time attack - - the old sti was a looser to the evo
Its going to be a toss up - they are both sweet cars - but teh handling of the evo and breaking are superior to the suby IMHO
Doesn't the JDM EVO 8 have the 6 speed and ayc? And still the subie was faster....even with just the 2 liter?
Where is the video?
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 368
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From: Seattle
The thing that scares me a little about the 2.5l STi engine is that it is a brand-new engine that is in the first-year of production as a turbo engine. As with all first-year items, they might not have found every problem in it.
It should have more power and potential than the 2.0l Evo engine.
The Evo's engine is tried and tested and very reliable however.
I really wish Subaru would remove that silly hoodscoop. Dont like having an object block my view of the road . . .
It should have more power and potential than the 2.0l Evo engine.
The Evo's engine is tried and tested and very reliable however.
I really wish Subaru would remove that silly hoodscoop. Dont like having an object block my view of the road . . .
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 456
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From: Kansas City, MO
Originally posted by GMat
You are sacrificing safety by getting a CF hood and trunk. The stock hood and trunk are important in crash protection too.
You are sacrificing safety by getting a CF hood and trunk. The stock hood and trunk are important in crash protection too.
You'd probably gain more if you spend the extra $1000+ on adding two gallons of race gas (100 octane) to your tank every time you fill up for the life of the car.
Originally posted by rlavalle
Thanks for your perspective Alfried. I'm racking my brain trying to make the right choice.
I want it all: Handling & braking on the track, power on the street, quality, durability and looks.
I'm guessing the 2.5 liter STi will have more power potential... at least with reasonable spool up.
As for the brakes, aren't they both 4 pot Brembos with 12.7" rotors? With the same weight and if you put comparable tires on them, I would think they'd be close.
I might put 2 piece rotors on. Love my StopTechs.
Russ
Thanks for your perspective Alfried. I'm racking my brain trying to make the right choice.
I want it all: Handling & braking on the track, power on the street, quality, durability and looks.
I'm guessing the 2.5 liter STi will have more power potential... at least with reasonable spool up.
As for the brakes, aren't they both 4 pot Brembos with 12.7" rotors? With the same weight and if you put comparable tires on them, I would think they'd be close.
I might put 2 piece rotors on. Love my StopTechs.
Russ
As far as the handling - - the only other car I have driven that had a similar "feel" stock was my '91 NSX - in fact both the EVO and the NSX are in the same catagory as far as overall steering feel and handling and the NSX had no power steering
I have no doubt the STI 2.5 will yield a nice bottom end power - especially with the AVCS and twin scroll - - - however - - the evo being a 2.0 L is comming vastly undertuned to survive on 91 octane **** gas they sell in many parts of the US - - - with a few mods (boost controller and SAFC) my car has already woken up to the tune of 40 extra wheel Hp across the board and is feeling very, very nice indeed
IMHO - I would greatly prefer the JDM spec 2.0 STI over the US 2.5 version - I'd like the 8,000 rpm capability - especially with those short STI gears - and with a decent sized twin scroll turbo the 2.0 l should have a useful powerband from 3500 to 7500 rpm - - - also I personally would not like to be stuck with the drive by wire set up - it might be a while before they have some decent plug in ecu's for that set up
To each thier own - it seems obvious that STI has taken the lead worldwide popularity wise and is the more popular choice
I - personally - will take the EVO all other things being equal just tod sitinquish myself frurther from the legions of over 30,000 '02 and '03 WRX driving wanna be WRC drivers already glogging the highways
Its nice to have a new project to work on and a new challange before me