No offense to you, but that is exactly what I expect to hear from all of the STi fans when certain car magazines choose the Evo over the STi.

 

This is some great info! Really helps!
BTW I've been to 3 dealers here in CT and even tho they have markups on the window stickers they WERE willing to do MSRP, without much haggling, even test drove one car 2x at one dealer!

 

No offense taken.

However you seem to be implying that I am biased toward the STi. Not so.

Having driven a JDM EVO VI, I can tell you that if the USDM Evolution handles anything like the VI, then the new STI (w/ newly revised suspension geometry) will have to be a significant improvement over the old in order to outhandle the USDM EVO.

However, as an fan of the EVO, you also have to set aside prejudices of previous encounters where the EVOs have outhandled the STIs, and clear your mind like a clean sheet of paper. Easier said than done, right?

My point is simply that for someone like myself, who likes to push the car to the edge of handling, it helps to read a review where the driver has the ability and the environment to get the most out of the car. For example, if a driver of Bryan Herta's (R&T's occasional track tester & Former Champ car driver) or Tiff Nedell's (Top Gear editor & Former F1 driver) caliber were to pick one over the other in terms of handling, I would trust their opinion a lot more than the opinion of journalist xyz.

And yes, there will always be biased STi fans who will ignore certain journalists because their preconcieved opinions don't agree with the journalists. Likewise, there will always be biased EVO fans who will do exactly the same.

I try very hard not to form biased opinions, so when I dismiss a journalist, it will be because of his credentials NOT his conclusions.

 

I think Mitsu should just bring over the GSR priced a little higher and renamed to Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution Ralliart Edition.
Or just Mitsu Evo Ralliart or something incorporating Ralliart in it. Since Ralliart will be setting up base in USA soon.
It should stick with JDM spec, and hopefully the narrower seats will be optional. can afford to price the car slightly higher than the STi because as of what I've heard the USDM Evo is pretty close to USDM Sti performance. The JDM GSR will wipe the floor with STi because, it will be more powerful, hopefully lighter, include a better differential system, 6 speed among other things. It will be a better machine. But I am just basing this on he say she say. SO until May 1st it's all speculation.

 

What happens may 1st?
Is that the date for 2004 announcements?

 

May 1 is the date on which the USDM STi's press embargo ends.

After May 1st, journalists who have driven the USDM STi will be free to publish their driving impressions. Until then, they have been asked by Subaru to keep their mouth shut!

 

Isn't Subaru cheating? I mean with a 2.5L it no longer qualifies as a WRC rally car.

 

Yeah, but there are no WRC races in the US.

 

This has been covered ad nauseum, but Subaru all ready makes enough 2.0 Sti's to qualify for WRC. It was a great example of thinking out of the box, and Subaru surprised , along with everyone else with their USDM only vehicle. Besides, how many hardcore WRC fans are in the US anyway? On top of that, the 2.5 was a smart way to have great power and meet emissions standards (from lower boost levels).

 

FYI - WRC rules require the production of LESS than 50 cars in order to get homologated. This handful of cars are used by the factory teams and other supported franchise teams. If WRC rules required large-scale homologation, you would be able to buy yourself a street legal AWD Peugeot 206 WRC variant - But you can't!

You guys are thinking of the old (pre-1997) Group "A" rules which required the production of 2500 cars. The current Group "N" requires 5000 cars for homologation.

It is true that even after the introduction of the new WRC class, continued to run a Group "A" based EVO in the WRC class until 2001. The street-legal EVO VI was the last of the REAL Rally-Replica cars. Starting with the EVO VII, the rally car and the street car went their seperate ways.

Bottom line:
The specs of the current street-legal EVO and STi have absolutely NOTHING to do with WRC regulations. Subaru and Mitsubishi can produce ANY type of car they please.

http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Homologation.html

 

For me there are more "real" issues besides sheer power.
Sure the STi may look better on paper, but we'll have to wait and see how it does. I read a Euro report on the STi, which is still 2.0 litre there, but it had the "upgrade" kit which produces 300HP and 300ft lb. of torque, so very close to the US model. The article spoke of how wild and fun the car was to drive, but lots of reading between the lines indicates that the STi will be a tough to handle car. In the article the reviewer even noted "torque steer" in the AWD system?! He said the car would grab one way and then hook up another, etc... Not sure what he meant but it seems the power is amazing but handling is a bit extreme. Further, the ride as explained in the review may not be conducive to areas such as mine in Chicago. I've driven the EVO and the ride is very nice for a sport suspended car with race spec tires.

The other considerations for me is that the STi doesn't have a sunroof option.
The STi is smaller and more cramped in feel. The EVO is perfect for me and it has more room for passengers in back than the STi. The Recaro's are awesome. STi went cheap on the seats and they are NOT the JDM/EDM seats. The STi seats are comparable to the WRX seats which kinda suck when I sat in the WRX at the auto show in Chicago.
DCCD is a gimmick kinda like "manual shift" in an automatic trans.
In reviews I've seen they indicate that it's better to leave the DCCD in automatic mode and let it handle what's best.

Then of course there's the issue of what the cars look like. To my eyes, the EVO has a rally, sport, aggressive shape that speak to me much more so than the STi. People say the new WRX/STi looks "aggresive". Really? It looks more "nice" than mean. It looks better than before but still not "sport" enough.

Also, the 4g63 engine is known in it's reliability and modability. The engine is very easily modded with not much to worry about. The 2.5 has yet to prove itself. I don't doubt that it will be a great engine, but we'll have to wait and see. There have been questions as to how much power the current driveline in the WRX/STi can handle, so it remains to be seen.

Overall they are both fine automobiles, but the EVO appeals to me more due to things not related just to engine size and HP/torque output.
Reviews of the EVO have been incredible talking about it's wonderful, amazing handling even without all the electronic gizmo's removed. It's more of a drivers car and Mits kept the cost down by limiting the gadgets.
If an improved model does come then it should be at a higher price point with more gizmos. That way, they could even lower the price of the current EVO.
Heck, prices are already falling to under MSRP.

I do have a question about something the dealer told me. They said that the Mits rep was explaining to them that there is some type of "restrictor" in the exhaust system and by simply removing it the EVO will pick up quite a bit of power nearer to 300HP. I asked questions but they couldn't be too specific.
Perhaps there is a restrictor on the turbo inlet side as there was in the stock turbo of the Eclipses. When I installed my 16g, the inlet was much larger than stock. Is that what he was referring to? I don't know.

I will say that the EVO felt stronger than it's rated 271HP. It's possible that Mits under rated this engine. Dodge did with their new Neon SRT4, it seems.


Look at the cars in more ways than just HP/torque and engine size.
I'm 37 so maybe I'm looking for some pratical things as well as performance.
The EVO has the style, power, grace, anger, room, and practicality.
The STi will be a worthy competitor.

Long live the turbo/AWD revolution Evolution!

GR-VIII

 

I think the airbag seats are more expensive than the non-air bag ones.. Subaru's just playing the safety card with the explosive power. Kinda hard to have a really contoured seat with airbag and yet fit an average-sized American.

You are right about the evo being larger and having a larger interior. Also right with the sunroof.....may the STi never have one. That's what wrxs are for.

have you seen the 6-speed trans side by side with the 5-speed trans?quite different in size. Still notchy and not as smooth as the evo but definitely capable of handling more torque. Plus,...even shorter ratios. ( may actually be bad for drag racing with power increase-shifting into 5th)

looks are subjective.

UK model is different from the JDM model and a lot more different than the USDM.

Actually, the USDM STi is said to be a compromise between the spec C and the STi. So Subaru is not holding back with this one. I think the JDM evo would be more of a match and not the USDM evo.

needs to bring in the ACD, 6-speed and stroked evo extreme engine in RS form to squash the USDM STi.

Nick

 

Well, the reviews I've seen which placed them neck and neck had the older STI without DCCD and lower HP vs the EVO 7 which had all the goodies, the AYC/ADC 280+hp and so forth. I understand that the latest "Best Motoring" test had the JDM EVO 8 slightly better than the new STI, but then again we don't have the JDM do we?

 

GR-VII: That was a great read. When all is said and done, the EVO and STI are so very closely matched arch-rivals that for the "average consumer" when it comes down to putting your downpayment, it will come down to price and exterior styling. There is one new STI in Subie Electric Blue color that I pass by every afternoon after work that drops my jaw and snaps my head to look everytime. If you don't think that hood scoop/front faschia of the STI is aggressive I don't know what your smokin' The hoodscoop in person is absolutely MASSIVE!! EVO/STI, to each their own, both beasts are amazing...a you say tomatoes, I say tomahtoes deal. Just my .02

 

Most important thing is that we're getting these amazing cars here.......
Mitsubishi fans need to remember when they are bashing the WRX....no US WRX would mean no EVO. There are all kinds of reasons why Japan does not want to bring these cars here.
Similarly Subaru fans need to keep in mind, no EVO = NO 2.5 liter STI with the DCCD and whatnot. Subaru is doing this purely to counter the EVO.
Either way, we win.