There is one new STI in Subie Electric Blue color that I pass by every afternoon after work that drops my jaw and snaps my head to look everytime. If you don't think that hood scoop/front faschia of the STI is aggressive I don't know what your smokin'
*********

Haven't "smoked" in years. Maybe it's residual affects?

You're right though, looks are subjective as people find different things appealing. That's good though. I'd rather everyone not drive the same car.
The WRX/STi is a good looking car and the STi trys the harder look, but the EVO justs looks more the part. But again, that's a personal opinion.

GR-VIII

 

No wrx= no evo= no 2.5L STi

How true...we would probably have ended up with the euro version and not the 2.5L bad boy with DCCD

I am grateful for all the choices = we all win

At least for the people that buys the cars either now or in the future

nicktckhoo

 

I don't think the "Average joe buyer" mentality is a market force at play here. We aren't talking about a mass produced product here where image is everything and what appears on paper brings in the buyers...regarding the Evo AND the Sti.

The low availability of these 2 cars is such that mostly only buyers "in the know" will get their hands on one of these machines. To these enthusiasts, the end results regarding a cars performance are more important than hp/tq numbers quoted in magazines and brochures.

The average person is never going to know what these cars are, or what they are capable of. And if they do, they will be hard pressed to rationalize, to themselves or their wives, why they should buy a $30k trim level of a $14k car.

Their practical side will consider that the lower trim level car, at 50% of the price, is just as useful, gets better fuel mileage, is cheaper to insure, doesn't attract attention, needs less maintenance, has cruise control, has a softer ride, has a quieter ride etc...etc...etc....

The average joe would think to himself, is having awd and almost 300hp worth giving up all that is listed above?


SC~

 

Some of your comments like the above are unfair to the STI and don't even make sense.

Leaving DCCD in automatic mode, means allowing the computer to vary the torque split between front and rear on the fly - that is one of its most advanced features.......the US EVO and WRX cannot do that. They must lay down 50/50 until there is wheel spin. This results in more understeer. You can counter that with a big rear sway bar or something, but then you end up with a car that suffers from lift off oversteer.....scary stuff on the street no matter what power oversteer fans say.

If DCCD is a gimmick then so is AD and variable differentials are a gimmick that is used in compettitive rallying to the point that it is almost impossible to win without them. Subaru deserves credit for actually bringing WRC technology to the streets, and Mitsubishi is bound to follow. Very different from the Ford Focus Citerons and Pugs who are making a joke out of rallying with pure d race cars that bear absolutely no relationship to anything available in the showrooms, now or ever.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vegetta
[B]


Some of your comments like the above are unfair to the STI and don't even make sense.

Leaving DCCD in automatic mode, means allowing the computer to vary the torque split between front and rear on the fly - that is one of its most advanced features.......the US EVO and WRX cannot do that. They must lay down 50/50 until there is wheel spin. This results in more understeer. You can counter that with a big rear sway bar or something, but then you end up with a car that suffers from lift off oversteer.....scary stuff on the street no matter what power oversteer fans say.
*****

Let me correct what I was trying to say. The DC part of DCCD is what I was referring to. The active center differential (can we call it that?) IS a good thing as it can control the torque/power split front to rear. As I said, the reviewer indicated that leaving the unit in "auto" mode NOT DC, is the best way to use the "DCCD". My "gimmick" comment is directed towards the marketing that the driver can control the center differential, not that the center differential is a great unit. Most people don't need or would know what to do with the DCCD, so why not just leave it as automatic, that was my point.

I'm sorry STi fans find little things to get upset about just because their cars aren't here yet. So far, I think it's pretty cool that EVO fans appreciate
these cool AWD/turbo "rally" derived automobiles. This competition breeds excellence. If I'm still not making sense, I'm sorry.

GR-VIII

 

You see, Subaru played it's hand too quickly. Subaru brought in their trump card, their biggest baddest car against
Mitsu has a ton of options, it can bring over a JDM Evo, for the price it costs to buy an STi, Mitsu can offer factory upgrades by Ralliart that will bump the power a bit over 300 or Mitsu can wait it out see how the sales go and add the Ralliart Edition of Evo (JDM Evo) to the line up next year.
I mean it's same case as the Lancer OZ Rally owners who bought their cars last year, this year we're getting a Ralliart Edition. It would be a bummer, but I'd support it because I'm a fan till death.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GR-VIII
[B]I understand what you're saying and not trying to pick nits, but
in many WRC rally cars you can also have the computer vary the torque split according to it's program or you can manually open or close any differential.

I can very easily see how (in theory), in the snow you'd want to lock the center diff to force a 50/50 split and prevent the rear end from sliding out.....but in an autox, you'd want to open it.....more power to the rear plus allowing the rear to slide out and you should be able to 180 or drift as quick as possible.
Same with AD which has settings fro tarmac, gravel and snow.

In a mass market road car, it may work in practice or it may not (won't know until we drive it), but its not just a gimmick. I believe Mitsubishi will eventually bring and AD and possibly AYC EVO over to the states eventually.

 

I would imagine that this will not happen until Mitsu figures out a way to increase the maintenance interval for these active systems. Currently, as I understand it, the AYC at least needs to be factory maintained at an interval of once every 4500 miles.

A piece of hardware that requires THAT much maintenance would be a nightmare to deal with here in the US.

SC~ who's just bs'in here.

 

LOL
You are really good in making all your arguments silly with this last line.
Anyway, what makes you think only can bring something new not Subaru. Especially if did not make any good car available on US market from the time of GSX?

 

Nah, just look at how many average joe's are driving WRX's now. The majority didn't even know Subaru made a turbocharged Impreza until they arrived in the US. I'm sure a lot still have no idea of the GC8 turbo's. The EVO/STI/WRX appeal to more than just the long time hardcore enthusiasts because they are practical sports cars. Plenty of people will go for these cars, and the one's who aren't hardcore enthusiasts will automatically think the STI is better because it's more expensive, more gadgets, and more powerful. I remember somebody posting a link to a guy deciding between the STI and EVO on some neon board. 90% of them were saying buy the STI. That is a perfect example that the STI has a much broader appeal than to just the long time Subaru enthusiasts. Because of the limited production, Mitsubishi will have no problem selling this years EVO's. What about next years though, and the year after that. If they want to compete directly with the STI they will have to bring some more power and gadgets. They could always keep it where it's at and hope the price difference is enough to attract some of these average joe customers. However, if the rumors of the STI's price at 30,9xx are right, they might have a problem.

 

I still don't believe that the STi will be under $33,000.
The EVO is under $30k if you don't get the sunroof which the STi doesn't have. My guess is that the STi will be nearer to $34-$35k.
Afterall, the WRX equipped almost fully is MSRP'd at over $27,000.
If the STi were that close to the WRX, then Subaru is dumping the STi to gain market share. And, that leaves the WRX buyer in a confusion.
Granted the WRX sells for less than MSRP, but there are plenty of buyers who don't this and buy near MSRP. The STi for $30-$31k is simply awesome, but I doubt it will happen.

Lately, I've read in 2 auto mags that the STi will be $32,000. That's still pretty amazing.

GR-VIII

 

Did you notice a lot of these options are not available on STi? If you would cram STi with moonroof, winter package, audio, security, gauges..... it would be probably $35K.

 

Excepting security and audio most of that stuff is crap that I wouldn't want......I'd prefer to go aftermarket for audio.
I'd pay to get rid of moonroof. What the is winter package? (butt warmer or what?) If I want a Lincoln I'll just go ahead and buy one. The whole point of Evo and STI to me is that they are rally cars, that strip all the crap that adds weight and price and reduces performance out.

 

vegeta, I think the same way. But when somebody compares MSRP of WRX with all this crap to MSRP on STi it's not really valid. I'd say to compare WRX without any extras to STi and this way see the difference you pay for extra performance.

 

Not quite on the money here! DCCD controls how much open or locked that center diff is going to be. That is all it does.

Torque split is fixed on the STi and goes like 35:65 F/R and it is done through the gearing in the drivetrain.

Fedja