Objective Test Data for Buschur Filter vs. Stock Airbox
Originally Posted by Fourdoor
Make sure Smokedmustang has had at least 3 cups of coffee befor asking him any medical questions!
Keith
PS: Fixed the thread title
Keith
PS: Fixed the thread title
Thread Starter
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From: Clarkston, MI
Tuffguy: yes, that link is the same filter that we tested.
As far as your AEM unit, I have no idea just by looking at it. I will say this though, the open top cone area on the Buschur was sucking a ton of air. I was surprised.. I always thought these sort of open designs were more for show than anything, but obviously that was not the case. The AEM doesn't have that opening, so perhaps it's a touch more restrictive?? It's really impossible to say w/out measuring it.
As far as your AEM unit, I have no idea just by looking at it. I will say this though, the open top cone area on the Buschur was sucking a ton of air. I was surprised.. I always thought these sort of open designs were more for show than anything, but obviously that was not the case. The AEM doesn't have that opening, so perhaps it's a touch more restrictive?? It's really impossible to say w/out measuring it.
Nice test but I have to go with MalibuJack on this. Stock airbox has been proven to work very well into the 400hp range. He also posed a good point about turbulence created by aftermarket intakes and how they affect the MAF. My guess is that the stock airbox is designed in such a way that the turbulence created is somehow nullified as to not interfere with MAF readings. I will stick with my stock intake for as long as the car is under 400hp. I personally see no point in changing a part that works perfectly, does not cause the car to run or idle rough, and I am willing to sacrifice the few horsepower gain that a cone filter will give me to ensure that my car runs perfect. Just my 2c
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From: Clarkston, MI
thetox: I've never understood these comments about how an intake is 'good for XX hp'. I remember hearing that back in my Z car days as well. It seems to oversimplify the situation. It implies that at 390HP, you're fine, but at 410HP it's hurting your performance.
There is a restriction in the system. If you reduce that restriction, you will benefit at all rpm/hp/airflow ranges. Of course, as hp/airflow increases, the restriction becomes more and more significant in a non-linear way, until eventually it is unacceptable. If you mean that 400hp is your personal 'unacceptable' limit, ok. But to imply that it won't benefit you to change before that limit doesn't make sense. It will benefit you, just a little less. We tested at 400cfm, which is probably less than a stock EVO sucks at max rpm (and WAY less than a 400WHP monster) and yet still found a 62% improvement. To me, that's significant.
Personally, whenever I've messed with intake systems, the big improvement I've noticed has always been much faster spoolup time. Okay, it may flow a little better too, but I mainly like how the turbo/throttle becomes much more responsive.
I agree with both of you though that if an intake causes the MAF signal to be so unstable that you can't tune with it, then it's pointless to have. I'm glad to hear that the Buschur unit performs pretty well in this area.
There is a restriction in the system. If you reduce that restriction, you will benefit at all rpm/hp/airflow ranges. Of course, as hp/airflow increases, the restriction becomes more and more significant in a non-linear way, until eventually it is unacceptable. If you mean that 400hp is your personal 'unacceptable' limit, ok. But to imply that it won't benefit you to change before that limit doesn't make sense. It will benefit you, just a little less. We tested at 400cfm, which is probably less than a stock EVO sucks at max rpm (and WAY less than a 400WHP monster) and yet still found a 62% improvement. To me, that's significant.
Personally, whenever I've messed with intake systems, the big improvement I've noticed has always been much faster spoolup time. Okay, it may flow a little better too, but I mainly like how the turbo/throttle becomes much more responsive.
I agree with both of you though that if an intake causes the MAF signal to be so unstable that you can't tune with it, then it's pointless to have. I'm glad to hear that the Buschur unit performs pretty well in this area.
Originally Posted by Rnm
Very interesting.
Keep in mind - you MUST tune for the BR intake or you will be too lean
Originally Posted by DynoFlash
Yes - this is why I have been pushing that Buschur unit for so long now - its the best $80 you can spend
Keep in mind - you MUST tune for the BR intake or you will be too lean
Keep in mind - you MUST tune for the BR intake or you will be too lean
When I was on the dyno about a year ago, we tried both the K&N panel filter and the stock filter. The K&N filter gave me all of 3-4whp extra. To me, I would rather have the ability to filter out more dirt and grime than 3-4whp. Why risk your engine for a minimal gain over longevity?
There have been several tests done to show that the K&N filter isn't the most effective at filtering out dirt. It can even clog up faster and become more restrictive than a stock filter.
There have been several tests done to show that the K&N filter isn't the most effective at filtering out dirt. It can even clog up faster and become more restrictive than a stock filter.
Originally Posted by Rob W.
thetox: I've never understood these comments about how an intake is 'good for XX hp'. I remember hearing that back in my Z car days as well. It seems to oversimplify the situation. It implies that at 390HP, you're fine, but at 410HP it's hurting your performance.
There is a restriction in the system. If you reduce that restriction, you will benefit at all rpm/hp/airflow ranges. Of course, as hp/airflow increases, the restriction becomes more and more significant in a non-linear way, until eventually it is unacceptable. If you mean that 400hp is your personal 'unacceptable' limit, ok. But to imply that it won't benefit you to change before that limit doesn't make sense. It will benefit you, just a little less. We tested at 400cfm, which is probably less than a stock EVO sucks at max rpm (and WAY less than a 400WHP monster) and yet still found a 62% improvement. To me, that's significant.
Personally, whenever I've messed with intake systems, the big improvement I've noticed has always been much faster spoolup time. Okay, it may flow a little better too, but I mainly like how the turbo/throttle becomes much more responsive.
I agree with both of you though that if an intake causes the MAF signal to be so unstable that you can't tune with it, then it's pointless to have. I'm glad to hear that the Buschur unit performs pretty well in this area.
There is a restriction in the system. If you reduce that restriction, you will benefit at all rpm/hp/airflow ranges. Of course, as hp/airflow increases, the restriction becomes more and more significant in a non-linear way, until eventually it is unacceptable. If you mean that 400hp is your personal 'unacceptable' limit, ok. But to imply that it won't benefit you to change before that limit doesn't make sense. It will benefit you, just a little less. We tested at 400cfm, which is probably less than a stock EVO sucks at max rpm (and WAY less than a 400WHP monster) and yet still found a 62% improvement. To me, that's significant.
Personally, whenever I've messed with intake systems, the big improvement I've noticed has always been much faster spoolup time. Okay, it may flow a little better too, but I mainly like how the turbo/throttle becomes much more responsive.
I agree with both of you though that if an intake causes the MAF signal to be so unstable that you can't tune with it, then it's pointless to have. I'm glad to hear that the Buschur unit performs pretty well in this area.
I am in no way trying to discredit any of your findings or the fact that a cone filter will eliminate a restriction that is inherent of the system. What I am mainly trying to say is that I personally dont see the need of adding another element into the equation that could potentially pose more problems than it is worth in the long run. For the few HP that you gain you also run the risk of presenting driveability issues into the scenario(granted this is not always the case). I fully believe that when a car gets to a certain point, there is the need for the cone type intake but unless you are trying to squeeze every little bit of horsepower out of a stock turbo'd car the potential for problems has steered my thinking towards sticking with the stock intake. Either way I do find your tests enlightning but unfortunately not enough to sway my thinking. I will gladly read any information presented in a scientific fashion such as your test which I give thumbs up to.
to you for taking the time to do this test and present the information to everyone.
Originally Posted by Rob W.
Buschur maintenance: can you wash this filter with water, or is blowing it out with an airgun the only step you need? How long is the filter's life?
Rob
Uh oh, here i go throwing a curve ball.
I run the Apex'i intake filter for multiple reasons; not only is it the best filtering intake out, but it also has a specific design for MAF equiped cars that makes it flow less turbulent air. It's is also proven to make similar power to the HKS RS, which we all know makes the most power, but is pretty much equivelant to running no filter at all. Also fyi, my car ran completely fine without being tuned for this intake, though it is now tuned for it; and my car is SUPER sensitive, it throws codes like none other.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24355 - This link will prove to be very helpful and beneficial to this thread.
So my conclusion is that the under dog Apex'i filter is a perfect fit for our cars, and a great compromise between the stock Airbox, and the K&N.
Sorry to be somewhat off topic, but i found that many of the negative points being stated are only problems with "SOME" after market cone filters.
I run the Apex'i intake filter for multiple reasons; not only is it the best filtering intake out, but it also has a specific design for MAF equiped cars that makes it flow less turbulent air. It's is also proven to make similar power to the HKS RS, which we all know makes the most power, but is pretty much equivelant to running no filter at all. Also fyi, my car ran completely fine without being tuned for this intake, though it is now tuned for it; and my car is SUPER sensitive, it throws codes like none other.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=24355 - This link will prove to be very helpful and beneficial to this thread.
So my conclusion is that the under dog Apex'i filter is a perfect fit for our cars, and a great compromise between the stock Airbox, and the K&N.
Sorry to be somewhat off topic, but i found that many of the negative points being stated are only problems with "SOME" after market cone filters.
I agree that the problems associated with aftermarket intakes may be not so common incidences. I have a K&N cone filter and have had absolutely no problems with either idle or driveability. But of course all cars react differently to change, I was just throwing that out there.
Great test! Can't wait to see the temp. tests as well!
Great test! Can't wait to see the temp. tests as well!
Originally Posted by mitsuorder
I second this question. What is Buschur's official stance on maintenance of their filter?
Ej,
It can be cleaned and reused just like the k&n products. There is no set time of when it will need cleaned just whenever you feel it is necessary.
Nick
Buschur Racing Inc.