sti vs evo rally
Lets just say we go by the idea that a driver will be a huge factor in how a car performs, then the driver's championship would reflect just that. They will be the major variable in the success for their title. And more so reflect the drivers performance, luck and weather.
By the same token the constructor's championship is used to determine which manufacturer performed the best. This is the yardstick for the measure of which manufacturers have produced the most consistent results for all of their drivers and give a good indication as to the quality and overall performance of that manufacturer.
That being said the last time Subaru won a constructor's championship... 1997. Mitsubishi last won it in 1998. Since then the likes of Peugeot, Citroen and Ford have dominated the constructor's championship except for Toyota winning it in 1999.
So due to the overwhelming variables, Solberg and Burns, those championships were won with "dumb luck" right?
The fact of the matter is that yes there are many things that go into making a winning formula. If Mitsubishi were to not of made the mistakes they did and not have gone through their crisis, then maybe more money would be had for their motorsport divisions and they would have had a better showing in the years after the new millennium. But that would just be an excuse and in competition there is no room for excuses.
Were Subaru the better WRC team during those years? Without question I think so. But as of today, as of right now, Mitsubishi and Subaru can not be separated in terms of rally competitiveness. But in a few months we will know for sure who is top dog for this year and next year it will all begin anew.
By the same token the constructor's championship is used to determine which manufacturer performed the best. This is the yardstick for the measure of which manufacturers have produced the most consistent results for all of their drivers and give a good indication as to the quality and overall performance of that manufacturer.
That being said the last time Subaru won a constructor's championship... 1997. Mitsubishi last won it in 1998. Since then the likes of Peugeot, Citroen and Ford have dominated the constructor's championship except for Toyota winning it in 1999.
So due to the overwhelming variables, Solberg and Burns, those championships were won with "dumb luck" right?
The fact of the matter is that yes there are many things that go into making a winning formula. If Mitsubishi were to not of made the mistakes they did and not have gone through their crisis, then maybe more money would be had for their motorsport divisions and they would have had a better showing in the years after the new millennium. But that would just be an excuse and in competition there is no room for excuses.
Were Subaru the better WRC team during those years? Without question I think so. But as of today, as of right now, Mitsubishi and Subaru can not be separated in terms of rally competitiveness. But in a few months we will know for sure who is top dog for this year and next year it will all begin anew.
You are placing too much emphasis on my luck statement. Luck is undoubtedly a part of rallying, there are some situations where a driver gets either very lucky (narrowly missing a tree) or very unlucky (such as hitting a deer). To win a championship however requires consistently, I do believe Makinen deserved to win his four championships and Mitsubishi deserves credit as well, the applicable Evos (4 through 6?) truly stood out.
Again, I agree that the two cars are very competitive, I'm simply going against the fanboyism that invariably comes up on here or on NASIOC. Mitsubishi makes great cars as does Subaru.
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I was playing with words on the luck thing, just being sarcastic to make a point. It just seemed that you were implying that Mitsubishi's current achievements on the various rally competitions were without merit.
I am happy with your last post though.
They are indeed both great cars and I have always appreciated them.
I am happy with your last post though.
They are indeed both great cars and I have always appreciated them.
I know it's not just a rally (hence the 997 GT2 finishing so well), but privateers have a lot of success with Evo's as well as STi's. Ken Block's car is an internet celebrity, which probably makes it seem STi's are much more popular for that purpose.
http://www.rallyresults.com.au/targa2008/Modern.pdf
http://www.rallyresults.com.au/targa2008/Modern.pdf
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-4.html
Said Millen: "The Subaru just feels a lot more nervous than the Mitsubishi. I'm not as comfortable in it. Its responses are less predictable." And viewed from the passenger seat, Millen was obviously working harder—shuffling the steering wheel madly to correct and recorrect his driving line—to get a decent time from the STi. This was especially true over the patchy asphalt-and-dirt portion near the finish line. Of the STi, he noted, "Power off, this car's nose drifts. When I get back on the power, it feels great. It grips and pulls strongly." Millen pinned much of these shenanigans on the unpredictable torque-sensing, limited-slip front differential and a relatively slow steering ratio, requiring bigger, slower inputs.
"Don't you sometimes want a slower ratio on the dirt?" we asked. Too kind a man to say, "No, you moron!" he instead replied, "No, for racing, quicker is always better.
"The Evo is surprisingly different from the Subaru. It's clearly not as powerful, but it's not as nervous, either," Millen continued. "The Mitsubishi is more comfortable to drive at the limit."
any builder knows it takes a lot more to get the STi even close to where the evo can get, why very simple BOXER engines what subaru sti uses is a pain in the neck to work on, special balancing is required, i think is an open deck block, on the other hand evo 4 banger standard style engine is very simple to work on
look at what AL is going thrue with his build he cant barely find anyone to provide parts for his build, i am sure there is someone out there, however not that many and prolly not as good.
STI is super nice with TQ power because of the type of engine they from nature make good TQ, but whats required for them to make power is to much to justify.
again why is there hundreds of evos making power and not sti's,,, i am not saying there non sti's making good power i am saying the ratio of Evo:sti
i spent an entire year doing my homework of what i would get and i cam down to sti after many many conersations with people like David, TTP, Jestr ect ect.
anyways i think Subi has more money than mitsu to do such things,,, maybe
look at what AL is going thrue with his build he cant barely find anyone to provide parts for his build, i am sure there is someone out there, however not that many and prolly not as good.
STI is super nice with TQ power because of the type of engine they from nature make good TQ, but whats required for them to make power is to much to justify.
again why is there hundreds of evos making power and not sti's,,, i am not saying there non sti's making good power i am saying the ratio of Evo:sti
i spent an entire year doing my homework of what i would get and i cam down to sti after many many conersations with people like David, TTP, Jestr ect ect.
anyways i think Subi has more money than mitsu to do such things,,, maybe
Evos are sexy that's why.. When all the Sti's are in a ditch or rolled over evos will still be king!
And I see lots of Evos at rally's But most of them are not Big name company's like Monster and so on...
And I see lots of Evos at rally's But most of them are not Big name company's like Monster and so on...
@ that also.
Its all about driver preference. Look at Tommi Makenin. He is a legend with mitsu, but once he switched over to the Sti, he couldn't do the things he did in the evo. He won a few races sure, but no Driver's Title. Burns did well with subaru. He drove for subaru for a total of 8 years so he was use to those cars. While Makenin drove for mitsu for 13 years total. Once Mitsu dropped out with the Evo in 02', he went to subaru and it wasn't the same. Its all about driver preference and ability. That shouldn't determine a cars overall ability.
I will say one thing though about the WRC. I think its BS. If anyone notices, all the cars that are winning now are all Hatchbacks! Citroen, Ford, Peugeot. From 2000 to 2009. No Hatch, No win.
I will say one thing though about the WRC. I think its BS. If anyone notices, all the cars that are winning now are all Hatchbacks! Citroen, Ford, Peugeot. From 2000 to 2009. No Hatch, No win.
Here's the infamous Ken Block video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs-jAImScms