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E85 Myths Debunked

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Old Jun 23, 2011, 09:21 AM
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E85 Myths Debunked

With the recent news of ethanol subsidies being killed off by Congress, I thought this article from Wired Magazine would interest some of you guys. Personally, I've ran nothing but E85 in my car since it was built. The article can be found here.

Originally Posted by Wired | Autopia
The United States consumes nearly one-quarter of the world’s petroleum production, yet contains a small fraction of its reserves. As other countries’ economies grow, the appetite for this finite energy source increases, placing greater pressure on the resource itself and the environment at large. With inflation and higher energy costs consuming an ever-larger portion of our budget, the need for additional energy sources grows.

We must develop a multitude of alternatives to address our future energy needs. One such alternative is ethanol, which is domestically generated and sustainable. However, there are many myths surrounding ethanol, and I’ve come across a lot of them in my work at Argonne National Laboratory. I’m a mechanical engineer in the lab’s Transportation Technology R&D Center, so I’ve spent a lot of time researching ethanol.

Here are counterpoints to five prevalent myths about ethanol.

Myth No. 1: Ethanol requires more energy to make than it yields.

False. Argonne National Laboratory research has shown that corn ethanol delivers a positive energy balance of 8.8 megajoules per liter. The energy balance from second-generation biofuels using cellulosic sources is up to six times better, according to a study published in Biomass and Bioenergy Journal.

There are two key reasons ethanol is no longer net energy negative.

First, corn production efficiency has increased dramatically: Producers now grow 160 bushels per acre today versus the 95 grown in 1980, and corn yield continues to increase.

Second, ethanol production has become more energy-efficient. Today, more than 90 percent of corn used in ethanol production goes through a dry milling process that uses far less energy than the wet milling process used before. The combination of more corn per acre, coupled with a reduction of energy input to process ethanol, has resulted in a favorable energy output. The gallons of ethanol yielded per bushel of corn has also increased by about 50 percent.

Myth No. 2: Ethanol production reduces our food supply.

False. Only 1 percent of all corn grown in this country is eaten by humans. The rest is No. 2 yellow field corn, which is indigestible to humans and used in animal feed, food supplements and ethanol.

Specifically, a bushel of corn used for ethanol produces 1.5 pounds of corn oil, 17.5 pounds of high protein feed called DDGS, 2.6 pounds of corn meal and 31.5 pounds of starch. The starch can be converted to sweeteners or used to produce 2.8 gallons of ethanol. DDGS displaces whole corn and some soybeans traditionally used in animal feed. The United States is a large exporter of DDGS to China and other countries.

Additionally, the food-versus-fuel debate has spurred significant research and development of second-generation biofuels like cellulosic ethanol that do not use food crops. Cellulosic ethanol is made from the “woody” structural material in plants that is unusable by humans. Unlike food crops, ethanol crops and cellulosic ethanol crops can grow in any soil that will sustain grass.

Researchers, including Argonne, are investigating using marginal land to grow ethanol crops. Studies from the U.S. Department of Energy suggest the United States has enough non-edible biomass to produce approximately 30 percent of our total transportation fuel requirements by 2030. That could go a long way toward easing our reliance on imported petroleum.

Taken together, the increase in crop yield and the use of marginal lands can enable us to produce food and fuels.

Myth No. 3: Ethanol crops and production emit more greenhouse gases than gasoline.

False. A 1996 EPA study analyzing sources of air pollution confirmed that gasoline vehicles and non-road equipment are the largest contributors to vehicular gaseous hazardous air pollutants. However, another study showed ethanol reduces tailpipe carbon monoxide as much as 30 percent and tailpipe particulate matter emissions by 50 percent [.pdf]. And blending ethanol with gasoline dramatically reduces carbon monoxide tailpipe emissions and tailpipe emissions of volatile organic compounds that form ozone.

Finally, a lifecycle analysis of ethanol found “at present and in the near future, using corn ethanol reduces greenhouse gas emission by more than 20 percent, relative to those of petroleum gasoline.” Blending cellulosic ethanol with gasoline to make E85 brings the reduction to 63 percent. Some purpose-grown woody crops for next-generation fuels actually increase soil carbon enough to yield over a 100 percent reduction in GHG emissions.

Myth No. 4: Ethanol requires too much water to produce.

False. The amount of water used to make ethanol has declined dramatically. Today, producing one gallon of ethanol requires about 3.5 gallons of water. That’s a little more than it takes to process a gallon of gasoline. Much of the criticism about ethanol’s water requirements stem from the need to irrigate feedstock crops in drier climates. But most ethanol is produced from rain-fed crops grown in the Midwest.

In addition, ethanol is not carcinogenic and doesn’t poison groundwater or the ocean. Ethanol rapidly biodegrades. Concerns over ethanol spills are muted by ethanol’s low toxicity. In fact, you’ll find ethanol in beer, bourbon and other happy-hour beverages you’ve probably consumed.

Myth No. 5: Cars get lower gas mileage with ethanol.

OK, this one’s true. If you completely burn a gallon of gasoline and a gallon of E85, you’ll get 25 percent less energy from the E85. Flex-fuel cars that run on gasoline and ethanol see 25 percent less mileage with ethanol. However, a gallon of ethanol costs approximately 17 percent less than that of a gallon of gasoline. In some, but not all, regions, the fuel economy deficit is recovered by cheaper fuel costs. As the market grows and matures, production optimization would further drive down ethanol costs.

Research currently underway takes advantage of ethanol’s characteristics in a fully optimized engine that could greatly reduce the energy deficit. Last year, for example, Delphi cut the fuel economy penalty by one-third — while simultaneously increasing power. Downsizing the engine, combined with cheaper E85, would result in cost savings to the consumer, potentially making E85 more favorable than gasoline. On the plus side, ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline so it can improve performance.

On a final note, it’s important to take a step back and really look at our nation’s energy position. Currently, the United States consumes 20 million barrels of oil per day, approximately one quarter of the world’s total. Seventy percent of that petroleum is used for transportation.

To meet that demand, we import 65 percent of what we consume. Yet there are a number of hidden costs associated with the use of petroleum. A study conducted in 2003 showed that the true cost of a gallon of gasoline (including all indirect costs) was $5.28 per gallon. Yet in 2003, the average pump price for a gallon of gasoline was only $1.50. One can imagine what the actual cost is today by factoring in such indirect costs.

We produce about 900,000 barrels of ethanol per day in the United States. That surpasses the volume of petroleum we import from Nigeria and is within striking distance of the amount that we import from Venezuela or Saudi Arabia. Ethanol is making a real contribution to our energy needs and reducing our dependence on imported petroleum.

Editor’s note: Researchers at the U.S. Department of Energy’s Argonne National Laboratory occasionally contribute guest posts to Wired.com. In writing this post, Jehlik was not paid by, nor did he benefit from, the ethanol industry or its lobby. His research is energy-neutral and his paycheck remains the same regardless of his findings.
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Old Jun 23, 2011, 09:30 AM
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Personally, I'd feel much more comfortable running E85 if it didn't corrode rubber, aluminum, and magnesium.
Old Jun 23, 2011, 10:30 AM
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I love e85, I am going to start making my own at home. No more arab oil for me. I am stuck with ghetto 91oct in Cali, so e85 is just way better. I already have the parts for the automation system, and this weekend I am sourcing all the parts for the boiler and still. I think that everyone should make there own fuel.
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:05 AM
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That would be amazingly fun project to take on. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until I buy a house to do it.

-Acree
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by FJF
Personally, I'd feel much more comfortable running E85 if it didn't corrode rubber, aluminum, and magnesium.
We aren't driving cars made in the 1970's.

Do your research properly and build your E85 system properly and it won't be a big scary corrosion monster like every one that doesn't know anything about Ethanol always thinks.

Frankly, this should be on the myth list as well.

The food one always cracks me up. It's almost equal to yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded space. The herd mentality is strong with that one.

Last edited by razorlab; Jun 23, 2011 at 11:14 AM.
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:16 AM
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I think Dave Buscher has a project going on doing that.

I think most say E85 isn't corrosive in newer vehicles (maybe older, like 90's and down). Don't quote me on it but there are a lot smarter people then me in the E85 forum.
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by razorlab
We aren't driving cars made in the 1970's.

Do your research properly and build your E85 system properly and it won't be a big scary corrosion monster like every one that doesn't know anything about Ethanol always thinks.

Frankly, this should be on the myth list as well.
Fair enough. How is a "proper" E85 system built without replacing the corrodible seals, as an example?

Originally Posted by SmurfZilla
I think most say E85 isn't corrosive in newer vehicles (maybe older, like 90's and down). Don't quote me on it but there are a lot smarter people then me in the E85 forum.
Sometime back I saw GM's E85 upgrade kits for its (relatively) newer vehicles. Each kit included at least a hundred different items, from seals to hoses to pumps.

Last edited by FJF; Jun 23, 2011 at 11:30 AM.
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:40 AM
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Debunk these for me! I am on the fence, but the locals are hating on it-

"E85 is not always 85%, and changes ethanol percentage, you'll have to tweak your tune all the time."

and

"You'll blow that stock engine and/or fry your stock clutch".
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:41 AM
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Myth 2 is not entirely honest. If a farmer can get more money by planting corn that can be used in ethanol vs soybeans or wheat, they may choose to plant corn for better profit. When they do that they reduce the amount of other crops that would normally have been produced. Now instead of having enough wheat or soybeans. We have less which means those particular prices go up (supply & demand). In the case of wheat which is used in a lot of products, it makes all those products go up in price as well (breads, cereal).

In the end, I prefer that no subsidies be paid to anyone for the growth or refining of ethanol. We shouldn't be picking winners and loser in any sector.
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by FJF
Fair enough. How is a "proper" E85 system built without replacing the corrodible seals, as an example?
Make sure you have the correct parts that work with E85. On our cars it's a proper SS filter and pump and injectors that have a track record of working fine with E85.


Originally Posted by FJF
Sometime back I saw GM's E85 upgrade kits for its (relatively) newer vehicles. Each kit included at least a hundred different items, from seals to hoses to pumps.
A Huge monolithic company has to make sure their cars run in every perceivable place for a certain time, etc. They have to be 100% sure the parts they use are 100% E85 compatible.

Enthusiasts obviously do it a little different. Take the Walbro fuel pump for instance. Walbro themselves say they cannot state their compatibility with Ethanol. Does it work with Ethanol? Yes. Does it work for a long time in Ethanol? Yes.

I've been using E85 for over 3 years, exclusively, 24/7 365. Both my personal cars run on it.

My 2005 Evo has 7X,000 miles on it. It runs the OEM charcoal style fuel filter (built into the plastic fuel assembly, a Walbro fuel pump with a non-cotton based fuel sock and RC1000cc injectors. All the seals are OEM.

I'm actually about to pull apart the fuel system that has seen E85 for over three years and make sure everything is still dandy pretty soon here. I will be creating a thread about it as well.

My 2010 RA Sportback also runs exclusively on E85. It has straight for the last year and 10,000 miles. It runs a SS inline fuel filter, a Walbro fuel pump with a non-cotton based fuel sock and ID1000cc injectors. All seals are OEM and original.

I have a good friend that I tuned on E85 a couple years back. He has a very long commute and has racked up over 60,000 miles on E85 exclusively with no issues so far and runs the same setup I do, on a 2005 Evo.

I also have over 30 Evo owners that have converted to E85 and that I have tuned over the past years that have run into no problems with seals or anything that people seem to think will fail.

Motors have been apart and inspected and the only abnormal things that are found is how clean everything is.

Keep in mind I live in California which is pretty new to E85, the rest of the country has had it for much longer. I did a ton of research into enthusiasts who have been running it for over a decade. They all have pretty much the same results, minus some who ran/run it on much older cars that have crappy seals anyway, which need to be replaced.

I understand the hesitation and fear of Ethanol, but I've been running it for years now and haven't looked back. It's an amazing fuel and really not a big scary monster.

Last edited by razorlab; Jun 23, 2011 at 11:58 AM.
Old Jun 23, 2011, 11:56 AM
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I have no less than 60,000 miles of E85 on my Evo (141,000 miles total for the car). Only changes made to the fuel system were a walboro fuel pump and RC 1000 cc injectors. So far so good, I love this stuff.

<- Bryans friend. :P

Last edited by dohcvtec; Jun 23, 2011 at 11:58 AM.
Old Jun 23, 2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Noize
Debunk these for me! I am on the fence, but the locals are hating on it-

"E85 is not always 85%, and changes ethanol percentage, you'll have to tweak your tune all the time."

and

"You'll blow that stock engine and/or fry your stock clutch".
If your tuner is good it won't matter if you have E85 or E70. I use E85 all year round and never had any issues (related to the level of Ethanol in the fuel).

You can blow the motor just as easily on 91/93
Fry the stock clutch.....new one on me. No more prone to frying the stock clutch on E then on 93
Old Jun 23, 2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Noize
Debunk these for me! I am on the fence, but the locals are hating on it-

"E85 is not always 85%, and changes ethanol percentage, you'll have to tweak your tune all the time."

and

"You'll blow that stock engine and/or fry your stock clutch".
Yes it is true that the Ethanol mixture swings depending on the season. E85 can be anywhere from 70% to 90% Ethanol. In the winter months, companies will add more gasoline to the mixture to aid with cold start issues.

All of these issues are purely related to tune. If your tuner aims for the very edge, then yes a seasonal drop in Ethanol percentage might cause you to pop a rod. If your tuner is reputable and knows what they are doing, they will tune the car safely to account for seasonal mixture changes. Either way, E70 is still better than 93.

-Acree
Old Jun 23, 2011, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by SmurfZilla
If your tuner is good it won't matter if you have E85 or E70. I use E85 all year round and never had any issues (related to the level of Ethanol in the fuel).

You can blow the motor just as easily on 91/93
Fry the stock clutch.....new one on me. No more prone to frying the stock clutch on E then on 93
This.

The only reason your stock clutch might fry is because most people see a 30-50 ftlb increase in torque all mods remaining the same when switching from 93 to E85. This is due to Ethanol being able to handle a huge increase in timing, especially in the mid range.

-Acree
Old Jun 23, 2011, 12:21 PM
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I should also mention I run E85 in my N/A Honda race car. Only fuel mods there are RC 440's and a walboro.


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