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Intermittent Starting Problems - Mysterious Cause Identified and Fixed
Evo GeneralDiscuss any generalized technical Evo related topics that may not fit into the other forums.
Please do not post tech and rumor threads here.
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Soooo, the replacement relay did not help BUT I just discovered something about my starting issue. Using my old relay, I made some pigtails for terminals #1 #2 #3 #5 so i can measure the voltages/continuity. when I inserted the #5 spade to test, i noticed its super loose and it wont stay in so I bent the (very stiff) #5 pigtail wire so the spade applies pressure to the terminal. When I tested, the darn thing spun the starter 15 times in a row (previously average 1:8 tries). It's late now, and want to test with a weaker (relocated) battery tomorrow. Thinking about it, i think we tend to wiggle this relay out or put in the #5 prong at an angle causing the terminal to lose grip (?).. Maybe you guys can try to see if a regular spade is snug in each terminal.
It works!
(The #1 #2, #3 spade terminals need to be slimmed down using a dremel)
Last edited by ViciousLSD; Aug 3, 2022 at 12:33 PM.
so I tried tightening the #5 terminal, even jammed a piece of ziptie in there to fill the gap and installed the relay(no pigtail). It works but the first try sometimes is dead, every try after that is flawless. I'll leave it like this for now (maybe add another thinner piece of ziptie), just glad I know what my real issue is. I will still have this pigtailed OE relay (i think the spades are softer and contacts better) in case. I can also pull the #5 terminal and replace it, eventually.
On a side note, I had this plan to do a solution like Ted_B's but using 2 OE relays I already have, placed inside the casing, powered from fusebox and no wire cutting. It's definitely doable!
So far the new relay from amazon has worked 20/20 times using pigtails, all terminals need to be super tight. added some cushioning top and bottom, will see how it holds up autocrossing this weekend
I have a relocated PC680 mini battery,
Here's the no-wirecut "HD relay" solution (using OE relay). I implemented this today since I miss that fast-cranking sound
This still needs the wire extensions (pigtails) pictured above. "A" was the clutch switch, now its just a security switch. I've always had it but now "OFF" is "starting disabled"
pin/terminal 2 is not connected. "B" is 12v power supply to relay terminal 4, coming from the fuse box. I'll probably add a fuse at "B"
Like several others, for some time I have experienced an intermittent starting issue, whereby turning the key results in a 'click' from the starter relay, but no starter action. Sometimes I needed 20-30 turns of the key before it would suddenly turn over as if nothing were wrong. Strange indeed.
I invested several hours in checking starter, starter solenoid, and starter relay, but all seemed to work just fine when jumped with a power lead straight from the battery. I had already replaced the ignition switch and starter relay a year or so before - no improvement. A new starter and solenoid made no difference either.
I removed kick panels and the console to locate and check various connectors and starter circuit wiring. All connections checked out ok. I noticed whenever I sent power through the starter switch area, that's where trouble kept rearing its ugly head.
Some accused the start interrupter of an alarm system of being faulty. I also have an alarm system that taps into the starter circuit, so I disconnected it and verified that the problem was not resolved.
What I found after much aggravation is the problem is at the starter switch. It isn't the switch itself, but its tendency to rotate ever so slightly when the key is turned. See the photo below:
Remove the lower and upper steering wheel shaft covers, and the starter switch is revealed. The switch is held in place by only one screw. If this switch rotates by so much as a couple of degrees when the key is turned, you will hear a click, and no starter. Remove the starter switch (angled phillips wrench) and activate it with the key while holding in your hand. If you find the car starts every time, you've found the problem.
If you've done any wiring (e.g. alarm) under the dash, be sure you've not done anything to put downward pressure on that bundle of wiring from the starter switch area (see red X). If yours was like mine, you could be sorry. If anything, you want a little tension nudging those wires upward here, which can be done with wire ties.
There is a smaller, white connector assembly that triggers the 'ding dong' key alert sound. It mounts to the underside of the starter switch via a little plastic bracket and puts some pressure on the switch as a result. We don't want it tugging on the starter switch. Remove it from the starter switch and let it hang on its own (see green arrow).
Be sure you tighten the starter switch screw snugly (see purple arrow), and be sure the switch is rotated as far as it can be moved clockwise. Like I said, even if it rotates just a couple of degrees counterclockwise, it will cause trouble. It's hard to believe this area is so sensitive, but it is what it is. That being said, be gentle when you turn the key to start the car.
The past year or two, my starting issues have come back even though I really haven't driven my Evo much. It has now gotten annoying again, despite me double checking things behind the steering column to make sure things didn't rattle loose again through the years. (I had previously replaced the starter switch and zip tied the ignition switch to my steering column only).
VisciousLSD, which method did you end up using on the starter relay to fix this? Can you clarify how you went about your fix (for me and those that aren't too comfortable with electrical diagrams)? I'm also trying to not cut up as many wires as I can, if I can help it.
I fixed my starter issues by adding a 30amp relay between the factory starter relay and the starter solenoid. It just provided a more direct current path to the battery between my key and the starter solenoid. Since we know that the starter solenoid is actually what completes the circuit between the starter motor and the battery (by backing up into two stud terminals when energized), I found out that I had a weak current path between my key switch and the starter solenoid.
The past year or two, my starting issues have come back even though I really haven't driven my Evo much. It has now gotten annoying again, despite me double checking things behind the steering column to make sure things didn't rattle loose again through the years. (I had previously replaced the starter switch and zip tied the ignition switch to my steering column only).
VisciousLSD, which method did you end up using on the starter relay to fix this? Can you clarify how you went about your fix (for me and those that aren't too comfortable with electrical diagrams)? I'm also trying to not cut up as many wires as I can, if I can help it.
@Thoe99
sure we can have something easy for you to try. the no-cut solution is to give up the press-clutch-to-start feature. Did you want to keep that?
@Thoe99
sure we can have something easy for you to try. the no-cut solution is to give up the press-clutch-to-start feature. Did you want to keep that?
@Thoe99
**DISCONNECT THE BATTERY WHEN WORKING ON ELECTRICAL STUFF** (but not really necessary here)
So basically your starter relay is plugged in this box. pictured here is just extending the connections to terminal#s 1, 2, 3, 5 (it did not use #4) sample wire extensions (what i refer to as 'pigtails') with appropriate terminals (standard spades connectors need to be trimmed to fit). this wont change anything. you can make the wires long since you're just doing 'proof of concept' to see if it addresses your particular issue.
your relay
for the actual fix, the only difference here is
#2 'pigtail' is removed, and
#4 is connected to a battery source which is that bolt#4. You can just connect 4 & 4 and not go under the boxes (that's just for a clean look)
(connect battery), dont depress the clutch (or remove clutch switch connector and jump the terminals in the plug) and turn the key to start the car, see if you have no-hesitation full cranking force. If its good then you just need to clean up the connections, make them short enough to be tucked inside the box
Last edited by ViciousLSD; Mar 5, 2024 at 01:00 PM.
So if I understand correctly, we're connecting #1,3,5 to the same locations, we're no longer connecting #2, and then moving #4 to connect to the lowest connector in the relay box? Is that a fuse on the #4 line that I see in your pic?
So if I understand correctly, we're connecting #1,3,5 to the same locations, we're no longer connecting #2, and then moving #4 to connect to the lowest connector in the relay box? Is that a fuse on the #4 line that I see in your pic?
?
its not a fuse, just a spade terminal. not necessary, i only put it there so i can swap out relays. I switched to the relay from amazon to test its quality.
I also used wires that are way too thick, it doesn't have to be that thick. i was previously experimenting on ensuring some pressure is applied to the terminals when the cover is installed
Last edited by ViciousLSD; Jan 8, 2023 at 08:47 PM.
Here's the no-wirecut "HD relay" solution (using OE relay). I implemented this today since I miss that fast-cranking sound
This still needs the wire extensions (pigtails) pictured above. "A" was the clutch switch, now its just a security switch. I've always had it but now "OFF" is "starting disabled"
pin/terminal 2 is not connected. "B" is 12v power supply to relay terminal 4, coming from the fuse box. I'll probably add a fuse at "B"
It looks like this would make it so the car would only start with the clutch pedal not depressed.
Might make for a last ditch theft deterrent haha.
Aug 2, 2022, 10:12 PM
