i did a search on the site and could not come up with a good conclusion. is it safe to install a three or four point harness in the Evo without a roll cage? also what companies make roll cages? do any of these companies make one where the back seat is still usable? your help will be appreciated. thank you.

 

pm TDC , I saw his Sparco set up last weekend and he knows what he's doing.

 

As a general rule, if you're going to use a 4 or 5 point harness you want to have a cage. The common reasoning is that with those harnesses you are so firmly strapped into your car's seat that if it rolls and the roof collapses your spine can be collapsed and/or driven up into the back of your sull - very messy. The standard 3 point harness will allow your body to move out of the way if the roof colapses. How all of this works out on the street or track has been debated quite a bit.

Personally I think only using a harness with a cage is sound logic. If you're worried about sliding around your seat on track days you can lock your seat belt and slide your seat forward to remove the slack; it's a pretty common autocross trick.

One other thing to consider when adding a 4 or 5 point harness; make sure where the harness comes through the seat, it is braced above the level of your shoulders. This will keep the harness from compressing your spine in a hard impact.

 

This has been hashed-over a few times.

Schroth has 3/4 point harnesses that are DOT approved. They have an anti-submarining feature that also allows upper body movement in the case of a roll-over. Have a look at the road/race site:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclsafety.htm

It's always better to have a roll cage/bar. Using these Schroth belts is acceptable to a lot of people (including myself), but a full 5 point harness with a cage is obviously safer.

 

Do we need a full cage? What about simply mounting a harness bar? I see a lot of PCA guys with bars only. Does anybody fabricate bars for Evo applications?

 

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=616798

Here are the pics from an SRT4 which we also did the same thing in a slocus and Evo. The brackets with the eyelets are easily bolted in and cheap and the harnesses then just clip in and out of vehicles easily. Are they the safest. no. Is anything the safest no. There is always safer. Being harnessesd in properly and in control of the car removed the biggest safety concern of all.. maintaining full control all the time and reducing fatigue.

 

Without a cage, there is no safe way to use a 4 or 5pt harness.

If you are in a rollover while wearing a harness, without a cage, your neck and skull will be crushed against the roof of the car as it collapses around you. If you have stock belts on, as the car rolls over and the roof crushes, your body will be pushed off to one side or another. A harness will hold you so tightly that your body won't be able to move with the collapsing structure of the car.

If you buy a harness and strap it to the baby seat hoops on the rear deck, you are in danger since those hoops were only designed to hold a little kid in place during a crash. If you mount the belts to the floor or to the rear seatbelt mounts, you are also in danger. Belt mounts that are below your shoulders will force you downwards into your seat during a crash. That will give you spinal compression injuries (very bad) during an accident.

I don't know why anyone would want to use a harness on the street anyway. If you strap yourself in properly, you will never be able to reach your stereo buttons or HVAC controls.


Even the Schroth harness (listed above) is not as safe as the oem stock shoulder belt. While the schroth belt may help to keep you from submarining in a crash, it does nothing to keep your spine from compressing due to the way the belts are mounted.

SC~

 

Watch the video. That is for the track. The floor mounts behind the seat are for the lap belts. The rear deck is for the shoulder belts to maintain as close to a 10' drop from parallel to the floor pan.

You really *should* replace all your *will*s with *might*s in your above claim. There are no guarantees.

In rollovers, more people lose body parts that end up outside the vehicle than peole get crushed. You might consider forarm tether a higher prioirty in rollover safety. from being properly restrained. It's a big debate.. There is no right answer, becuase there are no guarantees in anything safety related. Things can one way or another. With a harness on track, you're at least in control.. I've seen too many folks un able to control their car from a lack of a good harness and more folks so worn out from trying to hold themselves in the car they can't make it through 5 short 20 min sessions on a cool day. That's dangerous.

If the rear mounts are only for a child then hopefully they'll break in a rollover and allow you to flop around inside the car, no?

 

http://www.cg-lock.com/home.htm

I bought these a few weeks back...
Works great... so far (just driving around town).
Locks your waist into place real nice. still allows your upper body to move freely till your locks engage.
Will be going to a HPDE this weekend. I think they're going to do the trick without having to buy a full harness/cage setup.
The only thing you have to watch out for is releasing the seatbelt and getting out of the seat. (you could fling the CG-Lock into the window pretty easily, and its made of pretty sturdy steel)

 

Be sure to get some good video footage for us. Where are you running at?

 

What I have listed above is pretty generally accepted by most people who understand car safety and most people who sanction track events. Adding in if's and's or but's might change the semantics a bit, but it does not change the overall idea.

In a car without a cage, your safest option is to just use the stock belts.

We are talking Evo Recaro race buckets here....not Ford Escort bench seats. Please don't lose sight of that. You don't go flopping around in the Evo seat if you have it positioned properly and your stock belt pulled tight. I know....I've done it.

SC~

 

How did you get the cg lock to stay on the seat belt clip? I received these about a month ago and I followed the installation instructions, but I couldn't get it to attach as specified. The instructions said that once the cg lock was tightened down on the seat belt clip it should take a great deal of pressure to pull them off. These would pull off with hardly any effort.

 

yes report back on the cq lock. I used a baby seat lock and had it so tight I could barely get the belt connected, my upper body was all over the place. never again, useless on the track.


"Seat belt:3-point seat belts are acceptable. 2-point lap-belts must be replaced by 5-point safety harness system."
from a club's track rules page, no word on cages

 

I am unaware of any sanction that will not allow harnesses without a cage for safety tech. Most everyone I run with and those they race with highly encourage a harness as the first thing to do to any car going on the track for safety reasons.

 

I agree with you completely. I would prefer a cage and a 5 pt but thats just not feasable. I prefer clubman type sparcos or schroths that attach to the factory lap belt mounts and I prefer the rear seatbelt lap mounts instead of the decklid (Im 235# and I do think that the angle and Recaros will offer a bit of relief in event of a roof crush/ moreso than if mounted to the floorpan or the deck). I also think harnesses are a must for the track for exactly the reasons you posted. Those that think 3 point factory belts and unapproved sinchers (with metal edges ) are enough upper body support your mistaking tracking for the mid day parade lap.

Also harnesses are a nousance for the street and the vast majority of crashes that occur there.