No way I'm putting you through that

Any luck with sourcing the KW Variant 3 clubsport custom valve rate and spring rates for the Mk V R32? My flatmate really keen on getting his R32 set up to break 1:15 on the Dubai Autodrome Club Circuit (a 2.46km, tight, technical course) -- he's currently doing 1:18.7 on stock suspension with H&R front and rear sway bars.

- One of the Evo 9s will be getting the race alignment setup for his Cusco 02E coilovers

- another 9 is trying to decide what to get (currently running stock -- it's a 1 week old Evo),

- yet another 9 is being built for drag and street and will need advice from you
- an Evo 7 running on RSR springs and stock suspension needs advice on what to get on a budget -- he does not track, or autocross and just uses the car for street use, and may probably shoot for sway bars, roll centre adjustment, etc with a good alignment

- my E8 MR RS is definitely going for a full race alignment (am trying to sell my Zeal Function X coilovers in favour of the Robispec KW V3 clubsport ones)

- Another 9 just contacted me and he is keen to have you set up his TEIN Flex coilovers for street

- a fully built Civic with TEIN Super Racing Dampers (2-way adjustable) will also be looking to get his suspension set up properly, and needs advice on which additional components are useful

How long do you think this trip is going to take? I'm trying to get the dates of the autocross, sprint, trackdays and time attacks for October/November now, and will let you know what comes up.

Do you also set up Nissan 350Zs and Honda S2000s?

We should take this offline, so as not to threadjack the OP further

 

quote from a Evo/ 350Z customer (yes he owns both)

"Hello Robi, It's Ed with the 350Z. Just wanted to let you know I finally got
to drive the 350Z on a Track that I'm more familiar with. I was at SOW June
1st Friday with Speedventures going Clockwise.
I was so happy how the Car felt, I love the adjustability of the KW's. I was
able to access the controls in the rear by drilling holes in the back strut
brace, everything worked out perfect..............I felt more confident, The
Car was so much more PREDICTBLE, I like how it gripped and how it
communicated back to me. I Love how I could sense the rear braking loose and
me able to control it. I was exstatic to see how my times have
improved.........350Z SOW Clockwise on 5/14/06 1:42.07 then I bought a EVO
IX, The EVO IX with Your KW's SOW Clockwise on 12/10/06 1:35.50 ( The Evo is
a better car ) and then on June 1st, I got faster and faster with the 350Z,
SOW Clockwise, My Best Time was 1:35.90! I was laughing inside! I know I
didn't beat my Evo IX yet. I'm sure I'll be able to beat it next time, It
gives me a goal to look forward to, and a goal that is reachable for me.
When I do, my EVO will come out of retirement to set a new personal record
for me. Thanks a lot man! The next time I'll probably see you is after my
next upgrades, Lighter Battery, Titanium strut bar, Removed washer fluid
container. I still need to get those Kool Robi SPEC stickers for my 350Z.
See you then."

 

robi, i was killing time watching American Touge and I swear I saw the robispec Evo, and it did well against the Muellized Evo and the other one, both clearly with more power than what you had.

I fell in love with the way your car was handling, and that's what i'm trying to set up.

I have some questions for you in the interim:

Situation 1

i can get the car to push into a corner and understeer slightly without scrubbing. if i lift-off the throttle, the rear steps out in a controlled fashion and traction comes back the moment i get back on the throttle. As the rear rotates, i can get the nose to point towards the apex, and the moment it does so, I can unwind the steering and power my way out of the corner.

Question: Is this normal? Or is something set up wrong? My cross-corner balance is at 49.3%, and front/rear weight distribution is 61%/39%

I have Whiteline sway bars - 26mm fronts are in already, 22/24/26mm adjustable rears are being installed tomorrow. Whiteline front training arm bushings are in, so is the rear bumpsteer correction kit, and roll centre correction kit too.

After reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_setup, I was thinking of lowering the front ride height by 5 to 8 mm to try to reduce understeer, but was advised against so because it would affect my cross-corner weights. I was also thinking of running lower tire pressures up front relative to the rear, but was advised otherwise by Warr, so I'll probably be looking at a 32F/30R psi.

The Zeal coilovers I am running are 30-way damping adjustable, and the fronts are currently set to 30 and rears at 22. To reduce understeer, I was thinking of softened the fronts by dropping the setting to 15 and maybe keeping the rear at 22 or increasing them to 25.

Can you offer any setup tips as I will need to get a new alignment done after installing the sway bars, and will want to take the opportunity to have the car handle in a more neutral fashion until we fly you over in October. Track day is this Friday and I want to make sure that the car isn't going to behave all weird.

Whiteline has suggested the following:

- front camber -2.5 > -3.5 deg
- front caster max +ve
- front toe 0mm
- rear camber -1.75 > -2.5 deg
- rear toe 0.5mm +/-0.5 mm toe-in per side
- front ride height = 350 > 365mm
- rear ride height = 325 > 335mm

 

Hi... I red your post while searching for reviews on the Zeal Function x. I currently have the same suspension on my ix.

The car is currently in dubai for tuning etc. My mechanic is strongly recommending to change the Zeal's for ohlins. He said the zeals are poor quality and are basically for show only. others swear by them.

"lost at sea in an ix" thread describes my car.

Please give me your valuable feedback.

Thanx

 

ken. im so happy that your car is running so great. A vishnu tuned, robi-specd car? who never thought id hear that in the same sentence, but obviously the cars is running well in order for you to be able to put up great times at your local auto x sessions.

Cant wait till you come back to the RIGHT side of the country and we can go rent some cars again.

 

thx for the write up from another mr owner dying to see the difference between kw and factory bilstein difference. YOU'VE PM.

 

The Zeal Function X coilover I am running now used to perform really badly. Massive dollops of understeer, and snap oversteer. That was when I started learning about suspension setup and had the car corner-balanced at Gulf Sport, along with various key bushing upgrades, specifically the Whiteline Roll Centre Correction Kit, Front Trailing Arm Bushings, and Rear Bumpsteer Correction Kit. I am organizing a group buy now for these items, and you are welcome to add to the order if you are keen.

After the corner weighting and a track day at the Dubai Autodrome, I learnt how to maximize the benefit of the coilovers. With my current setup, I can not only maintain good cornering balance, but also induce understeer and oversteer on demand using only throttle input, something that I was not able to do on the first day. That I managed a 1:20.8 at the Dubai Autodrome with minimal mods on street tires and the fact that I am not a competition-class driver like Warr and several other experts on this forum goes to show that there is nothing wrong with Zeals.

If you are running them for street, then you are looking at the wrong product. Get a set of street coilovers and you will probably be much happier.

If you are using them for track evenings but not for competition, then the Zeals will suit you fine, and it's probably due to the fact that your suspension is not yet set up properly. Get that sorted out, and you should find that the car handles a whole lot better. Corner balancing is the main reason why coilovers are adjustable in the first place, not for the sake of lowering, which many people wrongly believe.

If you are planning to use Zeals in a highly competition environment (e.g. sanctioned time attacks, endurance races, etc), then you should be looking at something significantly better, like Motons, DMS and other professional-grade coilovers.

So before we go into 'which coilover is better/right for me?', we need to ask of the context in which the coilovers will be applied.

The Zeals are not the 'best' coilovers out there, and I have nothing but respect for the KW V3 Clubsport, the new Ohlins Sportline (used to be DFV) series, which I would have opted for if they were more readily available here, and within a sensible budget (how much were you offered the Ohlins for, and for which model?)

Keep in mind that a properly set-up (balanced and aligned) set of Cusco 02R, Zeal Function X (or even the XS) would perform far superior to a set of Ohlins that has been set up through guesswork (or worse, using 'finger spacing'). This can proven in an environment such as a track evening (next one is on 5th September at the Dubai Autodrome, and you are welcome to join in).

Some would argue that it does not matter for street applications, but this is where I beg to differ. On the street, with a poor suspension setup, your car will handle worse than stock, thought it may give you an impression otherwise. This would not only endanger you, but also other road users. On the track, with a bad setup, the worst that could happen is that you do not get a good timing, or you put your car into a tirewall, and no one else gets hurt.

Bottom line is, you won't know how well your suspension is set up until you find out how it really handles on track. I'd be happy to take you around (my car's only putting out 350 hp, so it's not like it's a monster Evo) if you join us for the next track day, otherwise we can meet somewhere in Dubai and I can take you around in my car around some less-populated areas.

And this is why I am planning to fly Robi into Dubai...

 

Thanx; really appreciate your feeback

The car is being prepared mainly for track use; its currently at AAT for a cage and is expected to be finished in ten days. What I understand from your post is that Zeals are not the best for track use (sprint challenges & autocross).

I already tracked the car at the BIC (Bahrain) on the gp circuit twice (best time 2:20). I can't get the car to rotate properly when trail braking. It understeers considerably during turn-in with even slight throttle applications, but once past the apex it follows steering inputs well even with full throttle; absolutely no oversteer unless violently provoked. This character is amplified at hairpins and slower turns. I would definitely be able to carry more speed into the turn if it oversteered easier for better rotation.

Since then, I've been toying around with the alignment and corner weights (installed all the whiteline products). The car understeers less on the road, but I didn't track it yet. My aligment is similar to yours, but with more toe out in front & less negative camber in the rear. my weight distribution is as follows:

(With me in it)
Total front 62%
Total left 51.6%
cross weight 50.6%

It would be great to participate in a track event in Dubai once the car is finished.

 

You misunderstand my comment on the Zeals. They are EXCELLENT coilovers for track, although they are not the BEST. The BEST coilovers will cost you tens of thousands of dirhams, and if that is what you are looking for, then we can look at full-on race equipment. There's a set I was looking at, until I found out that they cost around 10,000 Sterling Pounds

Also, keep in mind that the demands of track, sprints and autocross are different. On autocross, I want a loose rear end and lot of front end grip. On tracks with long high-speed sweepers, I would want more rear-end grip, and stability. On a tight, technical track, I prefer a loose rear-end, though not as loose as in autocross, but not as tight as on a track with high-speed sweepers. Likewise, a drift setup is very very different from all of the above.

IMHO, there are many ways to optimize setup, depending on the type of circuit and driver preferences, and though there are fundamentals in setting up a car, there are also tweaks that can be applied to specific circumstances and preferences.

My point was : An untuned set of high-end coilovers will perform worse than a properly tuned set of circuit coilovers.

Your cross corner weight looks pretty decent, and if rotation is what you want, then you should seriously consider getting some rear sway bars and run them as stiff as you can. I'm using Whiteline ones set to 26mm (stiffest) and they work like a charm

Also, by increasing rear tire pressures and camber (I'm now running at 1 degree of negative camber, with 3 degrees of negative camber up front, and it suits my driving style fine). You might also want to increase damping rates up front (to around 25 clicks) to reduce front-end grip and increase camber. If you really want the rear to be nice and loose, get negative toe (toe-out) on the rear, but be warned that too much will cause the car to be tail-happy. Try setting 0.03mm toe-out per rear side, and increase to as much as 0.06mm per side.

 

I'm sorry, my suspension is the Zeal super function type-c. they have 6 dampner & 6 rebound adjustments.

10,000 S. Pounds WOoow... half the price of a standard new evo; too expensive. I'll stick to the Zeals for the time being.

I guess the best thing to do is test the car on the 5th at the Autodrome and take it from there. What is required to participate?

 

Usually they require people to have completed the Newcomers Track Evening, but I think it should not be a problem for you, just a matter of familiarization and you should be running fine.

See you on the 5th

 

Spoke to AAT... the car might need more time

Unlikely to be finished before track day on the 5th.

I'll come with a friend who also has an evo

 

^^ ... yeah that's me

 

Cool. See you guys on the 5th. Will be busy till then getting my semislicks heat cycled, gauges prepped and fluid changed in preparation for a nice fun session

 

Robi, invest in some coveralls! j/k

+1 for the Robispec!