"confidence inspiring" handling, from factory to today
Aug 11, 2019, 11:36 PM
#1
"confidence inspiring" handling, from factory to today
Been thinking about this, curious if others have reached similar conclusions. When my previous IX was near stock, there was something special about it that I can't seem to recreate by throwing more parts into a 100k mile car. While the mechanical grip has definitely improved, and the turn-in response is still excellent, there's something that seems to be missing. It's almost a feeling of lightness and precision rather than actual driving performance.
It's like the difference between drawing with a regular sharpie and a magnum one. Instead of drawing with the tips of your fingers you're drawing with your wrist and elbow.
For those of you with low mileage, near stock Evos, do you feel like you could go in the canyons and drive it all dainty, with just your thumb and index fingers? Pinky sticking out like you're folding a fancy *** napkin? I remember going back and forth with a Gallardo when I was still on 235 width tires (285 now) and I would just fearlessly throw that **** in there, something I'm a lot more hesitant to do now.
My issue might be worn out parts and frame. I just got an alignment and corner balance and the camber plates had to be set asymmetrically (there's a 0.4 degree difference if using the same settings). The car feels great, but I don't know if this is the reason for that missing sense of refinement.
Do you think replacing all bushings and moving suspension parts, adding chassis reinforcement and maybe even straightening the frame would bring back some of that factory magic? Or should I just come to terms with being able to lean into a corner just as hard as any exotic car, as long as I'm willing to be terrified while doing it?
It's like the difference between drawing with a regular sharpie and a magnum one. Instead of drawing with the tips of your fingers you're drawing with your wrist and elbow.
For those of you with low mileage, near stock Evos, do you feel like you could go in the canyons and drive it all dainty, with just your thumb and index fingers? Pinky sticking out like you're folding a fancy *** napkin? I remember going back and forth with a Gallardo when I was still on 235 width tires (285 now) and I would just fearlessly throw that **** in there, something I'm a lot more hesitant to do now.
My issue might be worn out parts and frame. I just got an alignment and corner balance and the camber plates had to be set asymmetrically (there's a 0.4 degree difference if using the same settings). The car feels great, but I don't know if this is the reason for that missing sense of refinement.
Do you think replacing all bushings and moving suspension parts, adding chassis reinforcement and maybe even straightening the frame would bring back some of that factory magic? Or should I just come to terms with being able to lean into a corner just as hard as any exotic car, as long as I'm willing to be terrified while doing it?
Aug 11, 2019, 11:45 PM
#2
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
You're probably going a lot faster than you would be in a near stock Evo. Coilovers and 285's indicates you likely have a lot of grip...
The difference in camber plate settings is likely either the subframe needs to be move over, or you need hold the strut in position to increase or decrease camber while tightening it to the spindle. There's about .5-1* change in camber with the play in those bolts on most coilovers.
The difference in camber plate settings is likely either the subframe needs to be move over, or you need hold the strut in position to increase or decrease camber while tightening it to the spindle. There's about .5-1* change in camber with the play in those bolts on most coilovers.
Aug 12, 2019, 01:51 AM
#3
From what i can tell from what you have written down you dont seem to like the setup that you have done with the car it might be time to go back to stock and start over. It is a thing to overmodify a car and it is easy to get carried away when you start buying parts and it all snowballs into something you may not want at the end. The evo is an amazing car from the factory you must pick modifications wisely.
Aug 12, 2019, 03:55 AM
#4
You're probably going a lot faster than you would be in a near stock Evo. Coilovers and 285's indicates you likely have a lot of grip...
The difference in camber plate settings is likely either the subframe needs to be move over, or you need hold the strut in position to increase or decrease camber while tightening it to the spindle. There's about .5-1* change in camber with the play in those bolts on most coilovers.
The difference in camber plate settings is likely either the subframe needs to be move over, or you need hold the strut in position to increase or decrease camber while tightening it to the spindle. There's about .5-1* change in camber with the play in those bolts on most coilovers.
that's encouraging about the subframe and strut slop, maybe something I'll revisit in a few years (Magnus subframe? who knows)
From what i can tell from what you have written down you dont seem to like the setup that you have done with the car it might be time to go back to stock and start over. It is a thing to overmodify a car and it is easy to get carried away when you start buying parts and it all snowballs into something you may not want at the end. The evo is an amazing car from the factory you must pick modifications wisely.
An Evo was engineered to feel confident at 276hp with 235 width tires
What I'm wondering is if it's possible to reengineer that confidence at higher levels of power and grip. Exotic cars, like a 488GTB for example, were created to feel confident at a different level. We can reach that level of performance with mods, but maybe not the balance and refinement
Maybe someone here has an Evo that compares well with a 911 GT3 or R8 or something, would love to know about it (and again, I'm not talking about luxury or a quiet cabin, just how it drives)
Last edited by Name User; Aug 12, 2019 at 04:03 AM.
Aug 12, 2019, 11:18 AM
#5
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Originally Posted by Name User
yeah good point, more speed, more grip, more fear
that's encouraging about the subframe and strut slop, maybe something I'll revisit in a few years (Magnus subframe? who knows)heh it would be easier to buy a new Evo. I do like the setup, it's just different now. It's more about feeling than performance
An Evo was engineered to feel confident at 276hp with 235 width tires
What I'm wondering is if it's possible to reengineer that confidence at higher levels of power and grip. Exotic cars, like a 488GTB for example, were created to feel confident at a different level. We can reach that level of performance with mods, but maybe not the balance and refinement
Maybe someone here has an Evo that compares well with a 911 GT3 or R8 or something, would love to know about it (and again, I'm not talking about luxury or a quiet cabin, just how it drives)
that's encouraging about the subframe and strut slop, maybe something I'll revisit in a few years (Magnus subframe? who knows)heh it would be easier to buy a new Evo. I do like the setup, it's just different now. It's more about feeling than performance
An Evo was engineered to feel confident at 276hp with 235 width tires
What I'm wondering is if it's possible to reengineer that confidence at higher levels of power and grip. Exotic cars, like a 488GTB for example, were created to feel confident at a different level. We can reach that level of performance with mods, but maybe not the balance and refinement
Maybe someone here has an Evo that compares well with a 911 GT3 or R8 or something, would love to know about it (and again, I'm not talking about luxury or a quiet cabin, just how it drives)
Aug 12, 2019, 03:55 PM
#6
Specifically, what doesn't inspire confidence? Is it a tendency to snap oversteer?
First step to dial in stability would be an alignment with slight toe-in.
If your front-end is lowered past the point where the control arms are parallel to the ground, raise the front ride height. Going too low is counterproductive.
What coilovers do you have? Poor valving or excessively high spring rates can make the car feel unpredictable. Great coilovers make the car feel more planted, like it settles quickly into turns.
Do you have an adjustable rear swaybar? Try a lighter setting on the rear swaybar.
What tires are you using? Some tires are more forgiving than others when you go past peak grip.
First step to dial in stability would be an alignment with slight toe-in.
If your front-end is lowered past the point where the control arms are parallel to the ground, raise the front ride height. Going too low is counterproductive.
What coilovers do you have? Poor valving or excessively high spring rates can make the car feel unpredictable. Great coilovers make the car feel more planted, like it settles quickly into turns.
Do you have an adjustable rear swaybar? Try a lighter setting on the rear swaybar.
What tires are you using? Some tires are more forgiving than others when you go past peak grip.
Aug 12, 2019, 04:23 PM
#7
EvoM Community Team Leader
If you haven't done bushings, you should do bushings.
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Aug 12, 2019, 07:14 PM
#8
Evolved Member
I know what he is talking about. When my car was new, at highway speed I would yank the steering wheel, cross several lanes at an abrupt angle and then snap the car back straight. This was so easy it was silly fun. Some years later I bought nos factory tires. They weren't the same. Old rubber I guess. The feel I got from the car suggested bad things happening if I tried the above maneuver.
Aug 13, 2019, 07:52 AM
#9
Have you replaced the bushings and ball joints? I recently did this on my 130k IX and oh man did it make a difference. Prior to replacing, the car felt progressively loose and sloppy as the miles racked up. I ended up replacing every single bushing with Superpro ones, stuck with spherical bushings (Superpro in the front LCA and OEM's in the rear LCA), Hardrace rear ball joints and the Whiteline front RCK (new ball joints and tie rod ends). I then had it aligned and let me tell you, it felt as good as the day I bought it for the first time. The steering was extremely precise again and it just feels like it's on rails now.
Aug 13, 2019, 08:50 AM
#10
EvoM Community Team Leader
Have you replaced the bushings and ball joints? I recently did this on my 130k IX and oh man did it make a difference. Prior to replacing, the car felt progressively loose and sloppy as the miles racked up. I ended up replacing every single bushing with Superpro ones, stuck with spherical bushings (Superpro in the front LCA and OEM's in the rear LCA), Hardrace rear ball joints and the Whiteline front RCK (new ball joints and tie rod ends). I then had it aligned and let me tell you, it felt as good as the day I bought it for the first time. The steering was extremely precise again and it just feels like it's on rails now.
Aug 13, 2019, 10:23 AM
#12
EvoM Community Team Leader
https://www.rhdjapan.com/search/?q=RA519675K1
and Front Lower Arm Bush (Front)
https://www.rhdjapan.com/ralliart-bu...ront-ct9a.html
I haven't done the rears yet, my wallet is still in recovery from other Evo expenditures
Not sure if your talking about this spherical?
https://www.rhdjapan.com/search/?q=RA864730K1
I haven't tried to order it yet but I'm sure you can drop them an email and ask.
Aug 17, 2019, 09:59 AM
#13
The closest I've found an EVO to the other platforms is with sticky wide rubber, well setup coilovers and suspension. A flat platform with high levels of mechanical grip is as a blast.
The biggest difference aside from platform type above is the steering precision. The EVO has amazing quick steering but is too light and has much less feedback than either car above.
Aug 17, 2019, 04:44 PM
#15
Wider tires give a heavier steering feel compared to skinny OEM tires.
If you need to replace bushings I would recommend going with Spherical bushings from ESM race.
They sell an almost complete kit. http://www.esmrace.com/product-p/evo89.esmmkit.htm
To replace the ball joints go with Hardrace. https://www.maperformance.com/produc...i-evo-4-9-7366
If you need to replace bushings I would recommend going with Spherical bushings from ESM race.
They sell an almost complete kit. http://www.esmrace.com/product-p/evo89.esmmkit.htm
To replace the ball joints go with Hardrace. https://www.maperformance.com/produc...i-evo-4-9-7366