I dont have a timing map in front of me but as i recal it was about 10 into 11 at peak torque and 16 from 7000 to 8000 rpm keep in mind i dont know what im talking about and we havent worked on the bottom end timeing at all we are just getting started.

 

That's about right. I think our final timing map last night was 17 deg at 7500 rpm.

 

With your mods, 490 awhp seems high to me...


Really high...

 

It seems high to me also. But since im pretty much the first i know of with all the porting done and there are many other 450 whp red evo x builds out there i think its possible. I can only relay the data i have nothing has been fudged and this is what it looks like. If flow is what it takes to make power there arent many better setups out there a tubular mani is next but im liking my power for now. with full boltons and a pro tune this car made 330whp 330tq so take it for whatever you will with the the red, cams porting and a higher rpm limit this car is up 150 whp with the same vdr #s so 150 gain is good no matter what actual whp is.

 

thanks for the info. few more questions. did you guys try to make the psi linear towards redline and didn't see any gains so you tapered it down? or have you just not upped the boost up top?

 

we have been all over the place with the boost up top but we are unsure what is causing the random knock variations we are seeing. 24.5 psi is as high as we have been at redline. We tried tapering it downfrom 26 at 6000 to 22 at 8000 but nothing changed as far as knock goes the only thing that helped is running it a little leaner. Right now we are running 11.5 from peak tq to redline. We ran into a interesting senario when we tried to go to 11.7 afr it seemed no matter how lean our target afr was it didnt go leaner than 11.5 actual afr. Our target was above 12.9 and nothing changed

 

that is very interesting. I guess i should explain why i'm asking all these questions. I have a very similar set up to yours and also runing e85. with stock cams my best run was 483whp with 398wtq on VDR (yes i know how to use i'm not a moron like some people) Now here comes the interesting part. i turned my boost up to 30 psi flat line since i thought that was an ok number to be at since i don't push my car really that much. Now stupid of me, didn't really check to see what the actual gains where after i did that, shame on me. So i installed a set of BC 272s this weekend and ran the car with the exact same map as before. I had actually lost some power up top with them. i was shocked. I now have the mivec tuned pretty good in these cams but i noticed something very interesting, i'm only at 465 whp and 405 wtq but here is the thing. I was looking at my old log of my best run and i ran 30psi but it actually had tapered to 25psi up top!!!! i was like, what the hell?! so my theory, the FP red is out of juice at a certain psi level up top and it's just spitting hot air making me lose some power. I have the logged saved in my computer at home and i'm going to look at the difference in manifold air temps to prove my case because at 30psi, right now, they should be hotter than they where on my best run at 24 psi up top. I'm also runing the same timing as you are 13ish peak tq and 18 towars redline. i plan on playing with the timing after i get the boost squared off because theoretically, i should be able to up the timing up top since i will be runing less boost and gain some power. i will do this until i see no more gains and hopefully achieve MBT. sorry for the rant

 

Cams are supposed to allow the motor to ingest a greater volume of air at a given psi. In theory you should need less psi after a cam install to produce the same amount of power. My tuner likes to say that psi is a sign of a restriction...in an ideal world your turbo would expend 100% of its flow and not see any resistance.

All turbos will run out of air up top unless you have a restriction in your setup that causes it to flat-line or turn down. X heads flow better than the 8/9's did and that's one reason that our graphs are more likely to end at a high point. If you rev out the motor far enough then you'll always find the limit, though.

 

correct that's what i'm saying as well. with stock cams and 30psi i ran out of juice with the Red, now with less restriction i'm spining the turbo even worse with bigger cams and same 30psi. so down the psi goes for me, i'll report back with the results.

 

I'll just add that I know the table that limits the max lean AFR value. I found it when doing some disassem of the Evo 10 ROM a while back. I think the table is defined in the most recent versions of ECUFlash, but we are tuning with the Cobb AP, so I'll need to call up Cobb to get this table added.

Just as a general note, there's really nothing special about this tune, although I am surprised that the engine is happy with 11.5:1 AFR on WA 92 oct. My Evo 9 protests at anything above 11:1 on this fuel. I think the power all comes from the hardware mods.

 

Nice job mrfred!

 

Whoa... still using VDR... Olde School

Nice numbers!

 

Time for a clutch i ran a new log and the vdr graph went crazy so im past the holding capacity of a stock clutch im glad i already have a new clutch sitting in the garage waiting to go in. This car has given me plenty of wrench time im learning as i go.

 

^^ are you on forged internals?

 

im still on stock internals but im putting the brakes on untill i do the build i am thinking about pulling the motor when i do the clutch. I built this thing with e85 in mind but with the power were making on pump e85 is out of the question until i build the motor.