No new updates as of yet, but I am hoping that similar to that one guy's results, the issue dissipates with higher mileage. Perhaps there is a long wear in period, who knows. Although I will say this; after my tune, I have put on about 600 miles on my car, and the oil smells noticeably less strong of fuel! Perhaps my tuner's theory about the fuel run off programming being a possible source of the dilution is correct, which would explain why my problem seems to be improved on the smell-o-meter while other people with tunes don't seem to show any improvement (many tuners don't adjust the run off programming).

Who knows... but the next oil analysis should show improvement. The only issue is that the first 400 miles on this oil were still on the stock tune, so that will skew the results a bit but its not really a big deal; if improvement is shown, I'll know that the tune helped. I also just ran a fuel system cleaner, and I doubt that that really makes much difference other than serving as preventative maintenance, but you never know. Cars that run really rich tend to have more carbon buildup and whatnot than other cars, so a car like the X stands to benefit more from this type of maintenance. Who knows, but it's good to do every oil change just in case.

Anyway, I'll let everyone know when I am getting my next analysis done, and will post up the results as soon as I have them. In the meantime, keep the posts coming. If anyone else has an analysis report, post it up!

 

What treatment do you do?? Lucas??

 

I use the AMSOIL P.I.. It's the best stuff on the market IMO, as are most amsoil products, and will safely clean the daylights out of everything it touches, from injectors, valves, spark plugs... you name it. With low mileage engines, it's really more about preventative maintenance than anything, but like I said earlier, engines that run really rich tend to have more deposits and build up than other cars and thus good quality fuel system cleaners are more important. Anyway, the P.I. is pretty expensive compared to most of your run of the mill 3 dollar STP junk (it's like 11 bucks a bottle), but you can't put a price on quality.

 

Just to post a source of new data for the 4G63T engine and whether there is fuel dilution in this engine relative to the 4B11T. Well, the answer is no (https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l-use-x-8.html) BUT there is an important caveat. The engine had 24K mi on it. That is, the results are similar to an X (stitalon1) with similar mileage (19K) where no significant fuel dilution was measured. So it is unclear whether the EVO IX and VIII had similar fuel dilution as the X for the early mileage of <10-15K mi. Just trying to see if this issue/level of dilution is just confined to the 4B11T engine.

Later, Ken

 

Keep us posted, Ken.

 

we are trying to test the PI from AMSOIL and the WYNNS V.I.C, the wynns has worked miracles every single customer has come back saying they love how there car feels.

however the chemicals in the AMSOIL P.I. are very close t the wynns package.

we will test running and on some static parts.

ill post the results here and on the new thread

 

Sounds good guys-- I'm obviously a new poster but I appreciate all of your knowledge on the matter. Especially the fact that you are taking it serious enough to have it analyzed then running comparison tests!!

I'll be checking this thread daily as before--

-Tim

 

Any new news from anyone?

 

Interesting thread. Lots of good info, I'll try to add to that.

Turbo engines are tuned richer than NA engines. 9:1 at full throttle/full boost is not abnormal. This is to avoid detonation which increases with a turbo.

Since turbo engines are tuned richer they also have more oil dilution.

Oil dilution fluctuates depending on circumstances , IE cold starts, short tripping etc. It should go down on a sustained drive at full operating temp if you're not getting on it. It should go up during cold running or full boost/full throttle. It's going to affect an oil sample depending on recent driving conditions before you take the sample, not overall mileage. Overall ambient temps may also have an effect.

From what I've read, FWIW, 4% is not abnormal for a turbo depending when the sample is taken.

The smell test is subjective, maybe if you had some new oil to compare. Even then it's questionable and may only suggest the need to follow up with a sample test.

Normally oil dilution only occurs due to a rich condition, IE cold running or full boost/throttle. Normal or worn condition rings, pistons, valve guides, do not have any effect. A bad injector can happen but it's very unusual and will usually cause a CEL and a mis. In a rich condition fuel is going to go by the rings no matter what condition they are in. Bad rings are going to burn oil, not affect oil dilution.

Mitsubishi's current oil service recommendation for the EVO X, is 5,000 mi or 3,000 mi rough service.

IMHO most of the manufactures extended service times for most fluids is more than likely a marketing strategy. When everyone went from a 15K to a 30K interval on ATF, the ATF did not double in performance overnight. Same with oil. There are some exceptions to this like Honda's lifetime coolant. (lifetime being about 120K)

Unless you drive like grandma change your EVO oil and filter at 3,000 or 3,500. The fact that it's synthetic is outweighed by the fact this is a high perf turbo, close to a race engine on the street. However if you do have engine problems in the warranty period Mitsubishi can't say anything as long as you change at least every 5,000.

If you are really getting on it all the time and do short tripping etc you could go down to 2,500. Using a one grade heavier weight or different brand is okay too, as long as it's certified and full synthetic.

Another thing you can do is run Chevron or Shell fuel. The Techroline additive really works, it's more affordable and less hassle than adding a can of additive and it does just as good a job or better. I've taken apart engines with over 100K and they are clean of carbon if they've been running Chevron.

I've looked at all TSB's for the EVO X, none reference any oil dilution problem.

This is the TSB being referenced in this thread, it's never been revised so I don't think oil dilution was ever an official question. It's possible but unlikely that Mitsubishi is not admitting a dilution problem, regardless, if there is a problem this re-flash should take care of it.



My advice, get your software updated. Make sure your car is one of the "affected vehicles" and just make an appointment. I did one of these last week and it improved a slight mid range mis. I'm not going to name my dealer because that would be an advert but feel free to PM me, it's in the Seattle area.

If any dealer gives you problems due to aftermarket ad-ons without confirming the ad-ons are actually causing a problem that's a bad dealer not the manufacture. At the dealer where I work ad-ons don't necessarily void the warranty unless I know they are or are likely to be causing the problem. In other words, the benefit of the doubt.

 

The reason that you can't find the fuel dilution TSB from mitsu is because it's not a TSB; it's a "service advisory" or whatever they call them. You can't have a TSB without a fix, and there is no fix for this. There was a thread a while back that showed the bulletin from mitsu, and the comment was that fuel dilution could occur if the engine is driven hard while still cold, but that's true of any engine and doesn't address the issue that it's still occuring in large amounts even at operating temperature. Hope this cleared things up, and thanks for the tips; already employing them myself . I change my oil every 2000 miles, run amsoil SSO, use amsoil fuel system cleaners every oil change, and only run shell or bp gas in my car.

 

^ very informative. thanks for the info NWMtech.

 

thanks NWM_Tech, so far your opinion sounded the most realistic for me, about this "issue".

 

Yeah, do me a favor and move to NH so I can have you work on my Evo rather than the "mechanics" that work here now...

-Tim

 

If there is a problem as this thread describes, it's caused by a rich tune. This bulletin addresses a rich tune by updating the ECU program. The factory lists a symptom but that's neither here nor there. Whether it's oil dilution or a 5,000 rpm miss. The reason is the same and both will be addressed.

It may be like Microsoft. They have a bad security flaw and find it, or a bug they don't want to admit because of "marketing" issues. They will put out a patch that fixes the admitted and un-admitted issues.

Note too that this is a bulletin, not a recall. It can't be that serious because if Mitsu was really facing burned up motors it would be a recall and they would pay the $25 (.3hr) to reflash every EVO out there rather than replace $6K engines.

It's a bullitin and only for people that notice a problem, IE those into "spirited", or WOT driving. All the affected vehicles have the same software, so they all have the same problem, it's just whether or not the customer notices or cares.

I've done 3 of these now, they all are missing around 4K to 5,5K R's. I thought it was the waste gate at first because it sort of acts like that.

It could just be overly cautious engineers on the detonation issue or like previous mention the first year for an aluminum block, runs cooler thus needing less fuel cooling. Racing motors are always balancing acts.

------------------

on a side note there was an '08 EVO X recently in the shop with a no start. Turned out to be a stretched timing chain that allowed the intake cam to slip 12 teeth out of time. You could grab the cam by the mid point hex and slip it back and forth on the chain. Pulled the head and sent it out, luckily it didn't bend any valves but they needed a re-grind.

The car had 60K miles and the customer ended up paying because he'd only had one oil change! (gasp). and it was a Fram filter (junk) to boot. The oil was black as ink and burned. These modern chains don't have much margin for wear, if the oil gets dirty/diluted/weak they will stretch enough to cause problems, have seen this with Hondas also.

The ECU watches cam timing and throws a DTC when the cam chain gets stretched enough to be dangerous. The DTC pops when stretch reaches .6%. This chain was stretched 1.0%. The DTC was set and it must have been on for a while.

On the test drive a 5,000 rpm miss was noted.

Something else to look forward to also. this engine has a valve adjust rec at 60K. It's a major operation, you have to pull both cams and change shim buckets at $10 each. 3 or 4 hrs labor so heads up. This particular engine had 8 valves out of adjust.

 

NWM Tech, Thanks for info but 60,000 mi and one oil change! It is amazing the engine was even running. Hard to believe someone can be that out of it.
Thanks for 60K mi heads up; do not like the sound of this. Is this a continual adjustment/install,albeit every 60K mi, or a one shot deal?

Later, Ken