I am currently in the process of having my longblock built by evolutiondynamics in Lewisville because of a bad case of overboost and wanted to let you all know. I will be updating this thread with information and pictures as progress is made.

So far the only things set in stone is kelford 214-b cams/springs for the head (which are already in); still undecided as to what internals we will be using.

I am letting Kevin take this bull by the horns and do whatever he wants with it since it is his first 4B11 build I want to let him decide what should be used and we'll see what happens...

If you were curious as to what happened with the engine failure i broke a ring land on 2 cylinders and messed 1 of them up real bad. No major damage as far as block/crank/head go. 23k was on the clock. 29psi on 93oct FpRed for about 8k of those miles.

Any questions just ask.


*EDIT* here are some pics richard @ evolutiondynamics uploaded for me, thanks brother!

 

What tuning software were you using when you were running on the FP Red? Who tuned it?Thats a lot of boost for pump gas on a red I think. Evo Dynamics I"m sure will take care of your new motor, I'll have to stop by and check up on this build in person when I'm home. I'm thinking of going with those same cams in the fairly near future as well

EDIT: What power was the car making before she grenaded?

 

Calvin @ Cobb in Plano tuned it using the AccessPort, he made 383hp & 402tq on their mustang dyno. The AFR's were conservative IMO staying below 12.8 and the red seemed to start to make its power @ 26psi+ from what we were seeing in reference to the dynographs. I personally wanted to take it up a few more psi but you know how a big shop like Cobb, AMS, or Buschur is about stuff like that, they can't be sending you out the door with a ticking time bomb as far as a tune goes so i was happy with what i left with.

I trust Kevin and his crew to the fullest seeing as how they've never let me down in the past with all the man hours they have put into my car already. evolutiondynamics is; in my opinion, the best place in Texas for your Evo needs. For those of you who are new to the evo scene or just unaware of Kevin and his new shop you need to shoot over to evodynamics.com and check out some of his labor costs for evo work. You won't beat em. And don't even get me started on his tuning capabilities, lets just say I should have never went to Cobb for my tuning needs when I had someone who is leaps and bounds more reputable for all intensive tuning purposes a phone call away.

 

dang nice!

im going up there to get tuned soon also.

 

did i read that right? staying below 12.8 afr during wot? isn't that too lean? i mean it is for me...

 

When running an AFR of 12.8 @ WOT the car showed at most 0.3 ct of knock which is nearly non-existent and daily drivable safe. It's all in the tune brother. You might be surprised at the AFR's you can reach while still maintaing a safe knock ct and staying far from detonation. Ofcourse you want 0 knock at all times, that would be ideal for saftey and driveability, but if you want a more aggressive tune then you can afford yourself a knock ct much higher than what I was experiencing. So remember it's not about what your AFR is, it's about what your knock count is. All an AFR should be considered is a reference to how rich or lean a tune is not how dangerous it is, but again taking what i have said into consideration; really, what is "too lean" since lean does not neccesarily mean dangerous? It just varies tune to tune.

And to finally answer your question directly (lol sorry for explaining so much): No, generally speaking a good, reputable tuner will keep you below a 13.0 AFR unless you specifically ask them otherwise. That seems to be the industry standard. Calvin @ Cobb told me he will never go over a 12.8; personally. But you should always ask your tuner, don't assumer everyone is the same because he is a case in point.

 

You are right that numbers are just numbers but there are some guidelines that make sense. Are you sure you were tuned for 12.8 AFR on 93 octane at 29 psi?

I'm currently running mid 11 AFR on 93 octane at 27 psi but it's also tapering at higher RPM's down a couple psi as well. With boost that high and AFR that lean it's no wonder that over time you lost an engine. Having a razor edge tune on the dyno and then expecting it to never knock in actual street use is just reckless. I have a wideband and TurboXS knocklite on my dash and that's the only way I know that my tune is still working in all conditions.

11.0-11.5 AFR is usually considered more conservative and good for road courses.

11.5-12.0 AFR is usually considered safe but closer to as lean as you want to go for street/strip use.

I would imagine that with reduced timing you could tune for low knock at that boost and AFR but it still seems awfully high. The FP Red does indeed like to run higher boost which makes pump gas tuning more difficult for good results, I just question how that higher boost level was tuned for. Personally I would have gone for 11.5-12.0 AFR at the leanest and adjusted down timing to allow the higher boost levels.

Also as far as I knew, 12.5 AFR is considered where you would make max power on pump gas but boosted engines usually aren't run that lean without carefull tuning or a specific combustion chamber design that allows a leaner burn. Hopefully your new engine will last a bit longer, just consider a little more fueling or at least get another method for cylinder cooling in there like Meth injection to make that setup a bit safer.

 

ok cool with me...not questioning the tune or anything..just curious on how it is/was... but what if there are cases of bad gas? and did you happen to check on your EGTs too? TIA

 

+1000..Anything over 12.0 AFR on 93 Octane for a daily driven street car is pushing it IMO..Especially on the verge of 30psi..

 

Oklahoma only has 91 octane **** gas (and I mean **** -- they mix 87 + ethanol to get the 89 and 91). I'd be very wary of running any high boost application on the garbage up there.

 

12.8? Are you sure you didn't mean 11.8?

12.8 is even lean for race gas. Heck, my Honda S2000 runs 12.0 stock from the factory, and it's NA! A typical tuned A/F for NA is ~13.0.

12.8 is going to cause high EGTs. If tuned for this A/F by retarding the timing to prevent knock, well, retarded timing also tends to increase EGTs. So now you've greatly increased EGTs, which could have lead to busted ring lands.

 

Maybe it was spool up at 12.8 because 12.8 on 93 would be showing alot more knock to the extent that the engine would pull timing and you'd feel the loss of power in the car. I agree further with the 11-11.8ish for pump gas to be safe. You could watch my wideband and at about 12.1-12.2 it was pulling timing out on pump gas and the car fell on it's face.

Could running on the stock FMIC have aided this to happen? I'd imagine that running at that amount of boost on a stock FMIC would have been horrible heat soak since the stock FMIC heat soaked at stock boost on a stock turbo...

 

It's all in the tune huh? You have an interesting philosophy, one of which I've never heard before. The variances and unreliability of pump gas have proved otherwise.

 

piston number 1 on the engine was melted completely. we can get some pictures up for it. piston number 4 had a broken ring land, possibly from valve impact but i can't say for sure. it had compression on cylinder 4 so i think the piston must have just broken apart. number 1, DEFINATELY melted though.

 

However when one only uses 1 gas pump at 1 gass station for every fill, which is denoted on the pump to be 93 octane w/o ANY ethanol additives the variances and unreliability of gas is somewhat (atleast to its fullest extent possible) taken out of the equation. There is 1 gas station in my whole town that does 93, knowing that this would be my gas i would run daily i filled up two 5 gallon jugs and drove my car to Plano on that tank and then filled up with those jugs on the dyno. Tuned on the only gas that sees my tank. And lets say I need to fill up elsewhere for whatever reason (which I have) I just take it easy on the car and don't beat on it. Too easy. Hey like you called it yourself; it's a philosophy yes. But a philosophy I hold dearly, without a proper tune your nothing and no where near full potential of the vehichle in question. My engine failure was without a doubt in my mind caused from overboost and not bad fuel.

BTW some have mentioned it would take a good tune to run my aformentioned AFR's, just wanted to add that my car was on the dyno for 10+ hours for a single pump map.