maybe the new turbo has some airflow problems with the comp housing?

 

Another thing you might want to consider is that all of the FP red on the VIII or IX that are making power have cams install. I not sure if you have a cam install but most of the FP reds on the X don't. Cams on the X showed big improvements. Get a cam or trade it in for the AMS or ETS kits. There kits on the X without cams are making better power then the IX is.

 

Yeah, but now you're talking GT35R's, etc. Totally different ball game.

Cams ARE an important part, and most guys I know that run Red's on 8/9's do run a decent cam setup. But stock longblock for stock longblock, still, the 8/9's make more power for the same boost level.

It's just still strange to me. A normal suite of full bolt-ons in an X make more power than a 8/9 does with full bolt-ons, but once you put the Red in, the advantage switches to the older EVO's. There is a physical/mechanical reason for this, which I'd like to keep on topic with here until someone chimes in with verified facts.

Someone earlier said the turbo IS different, thus the reason it's cheaper. Were the 8/9 Reds cut and welded on the exhaust housing like the X? Anyone know the reason for this? I would assume it's to accommodate the larger TD09 exhaust wheel. Did some other special process go into the 8/9 Red's assembly? I ordered mine ported which looked like they did great work.

- Lou

 

Also... if you're running an FP Red on an X, what timing are you running on pump at torque peak and max advance @ redline? Just curious...

 

I would bet that 11.5 AFR's are good for the Red since you want to run as high boost as possible. Knowing that, I think 27-28 psi with 14-15* timing would be more HP than 25-26 psi with 16-17* timing, but every car will react slightly differently.

 

I dont know the exact specs on the X red but ill bet the turbo is not identical in size as far wheels go.. Look at the red for the STI nothing close..

However we have an MR here that did 430 on pump and we didnt even push it.. We are going to probably end up with around 450whp on pump with an evo X MR thru the sst trans.. Id say thats pretty on par with 8s and 9's on just pump..

Mike

 

From the FP Red text on their website:

I guess "same size internals" could mean different wheels but still same size, but I'm not sure.

450 let alone 430 whp on pump for an MR is quite a bit, although to know how high that is on your dyno we would have to know what a stock Evo X baselines at for reference. 450 whp on STM's Mustang Dyno (low reading) would be good for 127 mph traps which i'm not sure is possible without major modifications to the SST. Is this with Cams and Meth at higher boost? Most of the MR's I've seen dyno sheets for are only managing 40-60 whp higher than their stock turbo numbers depending on the dyno (I've seen dynos anywhere between 10 and 30% driveline losses from crank HP). The general consensus is that the FP Red just doesn't do as well at 24-25 psi on pump gas alone, but finding a way to tune it for higher boost be it reducing timing on 93 octane, meth, E85, or race gas seems to wake it up.

 

Our Evo GSR full weight + did 12.0 @113+mph on the stock turbo.

The X red does not equal the Evo 8-9 red.

 

Right... and nobody knows why.

 

^ they are different turbo's...

it's not apples to apples

 

This is very impressive. Mike, what boost was this at, and stock cams or not? Also, what kind of TQ #s?

I feel like my red should make more than it does, especially when I read things like this. I'm at 355-375whp / 320-330ft-lbs with a ported Red dyno'd with stock cams. AMS says this is what they've typically seen from a Red on any generation Evo with a setup like mine.

Also, to throw another wrench at it, when did you get your Red? I heard that FP has different versions of this turbo out for the X. I was one of the original buyers right after Ryan Gates.

Finally, I now have cams and the car is going back to AMS for a 25psi gasoline retune and a 30psi E85 tune in ten days. I'm expecting big things.

I think we all realize that this isn't the same turbo as the IXs, but it seems some are doing better than others. Could they have somehow overcome the pump gas flow issues that we have? If the X Reds were just smaller, you'd think they'd make bigger torque. In fact, the opposite seems true, they make much less.

 

So who's got access to the IX and X Reds and can take them apart to compare?

 

Don't forget about the huge price difference. Is this one of those "you get what you pay for" kinda things?

 

Forced Performance.

 

Completely different turbo housings. It's like saying why doesn't an orange taste like a banana. They're both fruit, but completely different.