Very simple question, hopefully Robert or someone from Forced Performance will chime in here.

I installed a brand new ported FP Red on my EVO X with every supporting mod possible (all AMS), with the exception of FMIC.

While I will say I am happy with my investment in my FP Red, it does seem common that EVO X Red setups are making less power than a similarly equipped EVO 8/9 FP Red car.

My car, with an FP Red tuned to 25 psi on 93 octane makes about 365awhp on a Mustang Dyno and will turn low 12's at about 116-117 mph.

A EVO 8/9 with an FP Red and supporting mods at the same boost level, will make another 50-65 or so awhp, and will touch high 10's at ~ 126mph.

I am aware that an EVO X is a heavier car overall, so we'll take that into consideration for the trap/ET (maybe worth .2), but what about the power difference?

Forced Performance, would you like to shed some light on the subject? Anyone with FP Red's who want to share their experiences and thoughts are welcome as well, thanks guys.

- Louis

 

Good question. I have noticed the same things you mention.

 

Good question... I wonder if it has anything to do with the size of the compressor housing between the two

 

I was running a Red with UICP, DW 800cc's, drop in filer, ACT disc, open stock downpipe and 02 housing tuned on 29psi 93oct and I went 12.135@ 112.3. I didnt even have nearly all bpu's and I almost went 11's.

I feel that with a downpipe/02 housing/LICP/FMIC/1000cc+/Short ram or Cold air intake/race gas or 93w/meth you should be able to go high 10's easily on a red.

But yes I do agree with you that it was easier to make more power on the VIII/IX red's.

 

they produce different numbers because they are different turbos

 

It's just heavier.

 

And I think the iron block could handle a bit more timing. Have you verified your timing against the 8/9 ?

 

4g63 ftw......

 

Are you really comparing apples to apples? It's a long shot at best, but seems like a typical 8/9 red isn't run on pump gas, so the results are few and far between. I recall one or two guys doing 400whp on a mustang, but others with less impressive results. I don't think you're that far off the mark; upgrade your FMIC and get a re-tune, you'll be happier with it. Right around 380whp on a mustang is what i'd expect out of a fp red on an 8/9/X on pump gas with all the supporting mods.

 

You guys forget to mention the 9's run meth with the reds....also they are using the 80mm housing which is diff on the x....from what I heard Forced Performance could make the 80 mm housing work for us? From what I read the x's always make more hp than 9's mod for mod...yea weight is an issue and so is how new that motor is still....

 

Yeah I agree with most of the things being mentioned in this thread as far as the question why goes. But the most apparent thing that sticks out to me is the comment above my own^^^. And that comment makes me realize something important. The 4B11 is not even 2 years old and we have twice the aftermarket supportability that was available for the 4g63 at this point in its lifetime (in the evo VIII and IX, respectivley). So instead of questiong things so much and scrutinizing the evo of today against the evo's of yesteryears I think we should be greatful we have what we have.

 

While the wheels might be the same between the two turbos, the housings most definitely are not. The compressor housing is smaller in relation to the exhaust side housing but from what I've read the FP Red for the Evo X seems to stumble on pump gas tunes due to backpressure being too high on the exhaust side. Once people turn up the boost to 30+ psi and use race gas/meth then the car starts laying down quite a bit more power as it overcomes the exhaust side back pressure.

The stock framed turbos will always have some limitations and every turbine wheel combo used in them will have advantages and disadvantages to them. Right now the Dom2 sized combo seems to be more optimal for ~25-30 psi operation where as the FP Red is better in the 30-35 psi range. That new 80mm anti-surge cover probably helps compressor side flow a bit over the stock inlet but it was mainly done to reduce WOT compressor surge that can occur in 5th gear at low RPM's where a larger compressor outflows what the engine can consume as it spools.

I think getting the FP Red ported would likely make it work better at lower boost levels so that there is less exhaust side backpressure. Using a good O2 Downpipe with a full 3" exhaust would also help that combination. Probably a nice set of tubular headers would be a positive change as well, the stock piece sending exhaust pulses head on into each other just screams bad design for a twin scroll manifold to flow well! Once those mods are done a solid set of cams will tie all that flow together provided the intake side is flowing properly with an upgraded FMIC and piping.

So that covers the power delivery side, now you have to consider that the Evo X is 300-500 lbs heavier than the Evo 8 or 9 depending on what trim level you are comparing and we typically run out of 4th gear through the traps in the 1/4 mile. Luckily straight line performance isn't the only thing the Evo X brings to the table.

 

It all comes down to the fact that it isn't the same turbo.
(There's a reason it's way cheaper for the X)

Even considering the fact that it's a completely different motor with different technology.
I mean an FP Red put on a evo VIII and an IX makes different amounts of power with the same mods and they have the same motor code. It's just not a comparison you can make.

 

I just want to add that the general rule is 100lbs=0.1s in ET. So 300-500lbs more = 0.3-0.5sec slower, apples to apples.

 

Good point guys, check out this excel spreadsheet I made to compare just that:

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...alculator.html

It easily shows how weight plays a huge role on how much HP you need to make to get the same 1/4 mile performance. 300-500 lbs heavier is also around a 3-5 mph trap speed penalty.