garrett 3076r maxed out at 27psi?
Oct 30, 2009, 10:46 AM
#17
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I've logged (as have others) the mitsu 3bar at 33psi and then it flatlines.
Oct 30, 2009, 10:53 AM
#18
Those are nice results! What kind of numbers does a stock Evo X lay down on that particular dyno and what crank HP do you think it's laying down? My spoolup was 20 psi by 3600 in 4th starting at 2000 rpm's and full boost was usually hit around 3800-4000 depending on load.
On the internal wastegate I was able to easily run as low as 17 psi with no creep and had to preload my Forge WGA to 6 turns in order to get a base boost of 24 psi. Once I added in my MBC I could get the car to boost as low as 25 psi holding to around 7200 and then it would drop to about 23 psi @ 8000. With the car set for 27 psi it would be at 26 psi by 7200 and then drop to 24 psi @ 8000.
About a month ago I tested 30 psi on 100 unleaded and it gained about 30-40 ft lbs of torque down low, but then had the same boost falloff to 26 psi at 7200 and drop down to 24 psi @ 8000. I've noticed other stock framed turbos like the FP Red and Dom 2 have a similar boost falloff at higher RPM's. I'm not sure if the engine isn't allowing the flow or if the turbo really is "out of flow". It could also be the internal wastegate being a bit too efficient at higher RPM's and the WGA can't fight all the backpressure to keep the boost at the set point.
Recently my Interal Wastegate flapper decided to break off and go flying down my exhaust so now I'm at about 3 psi boost... since there are no replacement turbos easily obtainable I decided to get an O2 Downpipe that has an integrated Tial 44mm External Wastegate. We'll see if this allows boost to hold better above 7200 rpm and I plan on turning up the boost to 32-35 psi on 116 octane race gas to really test the limits of this turbo. Mods after that will be a modified Intake manifold with larger internal volume (it's done but needs to be tested) and likely Cosworth MX1 cams.
With the turbo off the car I'll likely port the exhaust side for better flow where it counts which should help the top end power with minimal risk of losing spoolup or response. Honestly I was already getting some compressor surge if I went WOT in 5th and tried to boost over 20 psi at 3400 rpm's so trading some response for top end power would be ok.
Hope that gives you another data point on your turbo setup!
On the internal wastegate I was able to easily run as low as 17 psi with no creep and had to preload my Forge WGA to 6 turns in order to get a base boost of 24 psi. Once I added in my MBC I could get the car to boost as low as 25 psi holding to around 7200 and then it would drop to about 23 psi @ 8000. With the car set for 27 psi it would be at 26 psi by 7200 and then drop to 24 psi @ 8000.
About a month ago I tested 30 psi on 100 unleaded and it gained about 30-40 ft lbs of torque down low, but then had the same boost falloff to 26 psi at 7200 and drop down to 24 psi @ 8000. I've noticed other stock framed turbos like the FP Red and Dom 2 have a similar boost falloff at higher RPM's. I'm not sure if the engine isn't allowing the flow or if the turbo really is "out of flow". It could also be the internal wastegate being a bit too efficient at higher RPM's and the WGA can't fight all the backpressure to keep the boost at the set point.
Recently my Interal Wastegate flapper decided to break off and go flying down my exhaust so now I'm at about 3 psi boost... since there are no replacement turbos easily obtainable I decided to get an O2 Downpipe that has an integrated Tial 44mm External Wastegate. We'll see if this allows boost to hold better above 7200 rpm and I plan on turning up the boost to 32-35 psi on 116 octane race gas to really test the limits of this turbo. Mods after that will be a modified Intake manifold with larger internal volume (it's done but needs to be tested) and likely Cosworth MX1 cams.
With the turbo off the car I'll likely port the exhaust side for better flow where it counts which should help the top end power with minimal risk of losing spoolup or response. Honestly I was already getting some compressor surge if I went WOT in 5th and tried to boost over 20 psi at 3400 rpm's so trading some response for top end power would be ok.
Hope that gives you another data point on your turbo setup!
LOL, garrett made a new flapper and rod for this reason....
we have run ours to 30psi... but it made no sizeable gains on pump over 27psi...
cb
Nov 1, 2009, 09:33 AM
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Try improving the inlet restriction by using a larger diameter inlet elbow if youy are not already. I know some others have them available, and so do we at FP. If you are getting a lot of vacuum at the turbo inlet (I have logged as much as 6psi vacuum here at 60lb/minflow rate), then you are fighting with a hand behind your back to begin with. Additionally, there are lots of "black magic" limitations within the stock ECU, and I have seen cases where the ECU just starts to close the throttle body if it doenst like what you are doing. Monitor the boost pressure at the turbo outlet and compare to the intake manifold pressure to identify this issue.
I had some flappers break off on me a couple years ago, ended up giving away a bunch of replacement housings for free to make it up to people. I'd ask for a new housing if I were you, worst thing that could happen would be getting told to fly a kite, right?
I had some flappers break off on me a couple years ago, ended up giving away a bunch of replacement housings for free to make it up to people. I'd ask for a new housing if I were you, worst thing that could happen would be getting told to fly a kite, right?
Nov 2, 2009, 12:54 AM
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was racing my friend on the way home and it wouldnt boost past 19lb..
then punched it again later, no more then 2lb of boost. lol..
i need to look and see whats wrong. i hit 4krpm and 2lb of boost. could this mean my flapper broke off like urs? or did my hose pop off?
i'm hoping its something minor... if not time for warranty i hope..
this turbo really blows..
Nov 2, 2009, 06:13 AM
#24
and so my car becomes a lancer officially just like urs after having 1 week of 440+whp.
was racing my friend on the way home and it wouldnt boost past 19lb..
then punched it again later, no more then 2lb of boost. lol..
i need to look and see whats wrong. i hit 4krpm and 2lb of boost. could this mean my flapper broke off like urs? or did my hose pop off?
i'm hoping its something minor... if not time for warranty i hope..
this turbo really blows..
was racing my friend on the way home and it wouldnt boost past 19lb..
then punched it again later, no more then 2lb of boost. lol..
i need to look and see whats wrong. i hit 4krpm and 2lb of boost. could this mean my flapper broke off like urs? or did my hose pop off?
i'm hoping its something minor... if not time for warranty i hope..
this turbo really blows..
It appears that anyone with the early run of these turbos can be hit by this issue then. When mine failed it was at 25 psi at the road course because I wanted to "take it easy" on the car instead of the normal 27 psi I run on the street. I was also running pretty rich so elevated exhaust levels are hard to believe as I wasn't pushing it besides running in and out of boost for 20 minutes which it "should" be able to handle, or honestly this turbo isn't for me. The stock turbo held up flawlessly in 40F hotter weather.
I did notice that occasionally the flapper would bind up so likely this is what started to fatigue the flapper. My guess is that it started to have problems sealing as I did lose some spoolup about a month before the failure, the exhaust smell was coming through the shaft of the WGA and partially through one edge of the turbo gasket. I still have one nut that I'll need a better wrench to break loose on my ETS exhaust manifold, the upper center stud is extremely hard to reach and I can't get the break away torque with the tools I have.
Apparently this was sent out via email recently to Garrett Gearhead list members:
In April of 2009, the Garrett Turbocharger Upgrade for the 2008+ Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X was released. In conjunction with this release, select Evo specialists were selected to test the turbo in a variety of applications including street use, drag racing, road courses and rally racing. Initial feedback from this group was overwhelming in the power gains they saw and the ease of installation; so we asked them to push the turbochargers further.
We wanted them to be as aggressive as possible on these test turbochargers but as they turned up the boost exhaust gas temperatures (EGTs) began to reach unanticipated levels. Over extended periods of extreme use it was found that these elevated EGTs surpassed the tolerances of the turbocharger's internal wastegate arm and valve assembly. This resulted in the wastegate arm warping away from the housing, therefore opening the wastegate port causing a subsequent loss in power. In turn, the warpage allowed the poppet valve to spin freely eventually machining itself off of the connecting rivet.
Honeywell engineers quickly identified the problem and put an immediate halt on all production and sales of the Evo X-specific turbocharger until a solution could be designed and implemented.
The wastegate failure did NOT result in damage to any other turbocharger components other than the wastegate itself. The result of the failure was a loss of power.
Correction to Arm & Valve
There are two visually evident improvements on the re-released Garrett Turbocharger Upgrades.
First is a change of material in both the arm and valve. By moving to a stronger material, warping due to extreme temperatures is avoided.
Second is the addition of an anti-rotational pin to the poppet valve. The valve is now prevented from spinning 360 degrees, making it virtually impossible for the valve to machine itself off of the high temp rivet.
All new units of the Garrett Mitsubishi Evolution X Turbocharger Upgrades feature the enhanced arm and valve.
We wanted them to be as aggressive as possible on these test turbochargers but as they turned up the boost exhaust gas temperatures (EGTs) began to reach unanticipated levels. Over extended periods of extreme use it was found that these elevated EGTs surpassed the tolerances of the turbocharger's internal wastegate arm and valve assembly. This resulted in the wastegate arm warping away from the housing, therefore opening the wastegate port causing a subsequent loss in power. In turn, the warpage allowed the poppet valve to spin freely eventually machining itself off of the connecting rivet.
Honeywell engineers quickly identified the problem and put an immediate halt on all production and sales of the Evo X-specific turbocharger until a solution could be designed and implemented.
The wastegate failure did NOT result in damage to any other turbocharger components other than the wastegate itself. The result of the failure was a loss of power.
Correction to Arm & Valve
There are two visually evident improvements on the re-released Garrett Turbocharger Upgrades.
First is a change of material in both the arm and valve. By moving to a stronger material, warping due to extreme temperatures is avoided.
Second is the addition of an anti-rotational pin to the poppet valve. The valve is now prevented from spinning 360 degrees, making it virtually impossible for the valve to machine itself off of the high temp rivet.
All new units of the Garrett Mitsubishi Evolution X Turbocharger Upgrades feature the enhanced arm and valve.
Hopefully once the turbo is completely off I can closely inspect the turbo. If there is any hint that anything else is damaged I'll be forced to get the entire unit replaced, for now I'm hoping the ATP O2 DP with EWG will get me back on the road by tomorrow.
Last edited by Hiboost; Nov 2, 2009 at 06:23 AM.
Nov 2, 2009, 06:19 AM
#25
Try improving the inlet restriction by using a larger diameter inlet elbow if youy are not already. I know some others have them available, and so do we at FP. If you are getting a lot of vacuum at the turbo inlet (I have logged as much as 6psi vacuum here at 60lb/minflow rate), then you are fighting with a hand behind your back to begin with. Additionally, there are lots of "black magic" limitations within the stock ECU, and I have seen cases where the ECU just starts to close the throttle body if it doenst like what you are doing. Monitor the boost pressure at the turbo outlet and compare to the intake manifold pressure to identify this issue.
I had some flappers break off on me a couple years ago, ended up giving away a bunch of replacement housings for free to make it up to people. I'd ask for a new housing if I were you, worst thing that could happen would be getting told to fly a kite, right?
I had some flappers break off on me a couple years ago, ended up giving away a bunch of replacement housings for free to make it up to people. I'd ask for a new housing if I were you, worst thing that could happen would be getting told to fly a kite, right?
If there are any more indications of a problem with the turbo I will absolutely get it replaced, although I suspect the downtime will be painfull.
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