GSR vs. MR
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 165
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From: VEGAS!
Evolved Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,760
Likes: 22
From: Reading, MA
Interesting subject!! I see both sides here and I am still a bit thorned between the two at times. I am the one who enjoys driving and shifting is just part of it. But when you are not a teen, or in 20s or in 30s (I will stop here for now), then things do change a bit regardless you like it or not.
Racing application! So, my racing is mainly autoX and from that side of things there will be no shifting advantages between the two transmissions, since most of the time we are in the 2nd gear all the way. Now there will be/are some times when we hit rev limiter and typically you don't shift if it is too short before you have to slow down and that covers about 98% of cases. Sometimes, especially if the SST is as good as they say it is, it might be an advantage to actually shift, but overall I don't think it is worth to go for it just for those special cases when it might help. As of the road racing, I think this is already proven that SST is quicker then 5 speed around the track. Even in the auto mode, so no need to cover this one any more. Drag racing is still a toss since we don't know how hard SST can be pushed. But, if we can lunch the car as hard in both cases, shifting speed will be on the SST side. GTR is a proven example that shifting mode can produce very fast take offs, so it all goes to how much is too much!
Max HP capabilities of SST! So, to get back to things, it is assumed/confirmed that SST will not be able to handle higher HP and torque levels. For those people who are going to have their cars in 400+ WHP ranges, and assuming the above is correct, they have to use 5 speed. But, the real question here is how many of those that are claiming this as a bad thing for the SST are actually modify their cars to that level? I doubt it will be significant. I have a lot of friends with a lot of turbo AWD cars that are raced all the time and still very few are above 400 WHP range. So, IMHO I don't think a lot of people will see the limits of either trainy.
Joy of driving with stick!! Yes, this one is high up there!! All of the cars that I drove so far with pedal shifters where either tiptronics or just fake auto-manual trainy (actually just a regular auto trainy) that allows you to shift gears with the buttons. All of them had a huge delay between the time you press on the button to actual gear change and disconnected feel that you get is just plain ugly and worth nothing in my book! There was no joy for my while trying to engage those gears! But, this DSG type trainy is apparently as fast and the best that are out there and disconnected feel is now thing of the past or/and delay is so small that is in tolerable range. To have the real judgment I will have to drive one, but from what people who tried them have written so far it is all highly positive. Since, I am skeptic by nature, I will wait for this one to test it my self, but I do expect it to go either way.
Commuting to work! I see that some people are claiming that they are shifting the hell out of their car and having a ball all the time during this type of commutes, but either I am too old and forgot what I was doing when I was younger or those are just full of it. The truth is that occasionally one would get more spiritual here and there, but most of the time people drive normally (or pretty close to it) while commuting to work and back. Otherwise, either police or unfortunately accident will teach them sooner or later that you have to have a bit more maturity out there! The last part that is very important regarding the commute is commute in stop and go traffic!! Well, my car has a stronger pressure plate and the disk that doesn't like to be slipped, so if I say that I hate stop and go thing it might be understatement. Even with the stock clutch things are no fun. SST has a clear advantage for this kind of driver abuse!!
Perfect shifting quest! Yes, I know a lot about it and still do it here and there as most of the people do! It is fun! No question about it! Except one! What is the part of the actions that you did with perfect shifting that is so much fun? Is it just the fact that you matched the revs? Or, the knowledge that you lost minimum amount of time possible and managed to keep highest speed through the turn due to the perfect control of the car and its ability to accelerate back up as soon as possible? I believe that the correct answer is second one! There is no joy if you just matched the revs if there is not acceleration as a payoff after that! So, I do see the main source of joy acceleration part and ability to take 100% out of the car in the given moment! By taking the shifting part out of the equation, you still have the braking part and hitting of the apex and controlling the car at the edge of adhesion! But, that could be just me!
Coolness factor!! There is no question which of the two trainies is more cool regardless of the age of the driver!
Fuel economy!! It is know that all over the world that fuel economy is a big thing and everyone I know would like to have more miles from each of the gallons that is pumped into the car. The fact here is that SST has the best fuel consumption among all other transmission types. I actually believe that this trainy will be a trainy of the future and eventually replace first and old auto trainy and then even manual trainy. Nowadays, most of the race cars have sequential gearboxes anyway, so this will be just a cheaper version to get similar effects. And, right now the price for the SST trainy is probably higher then it should be mainly because of its early days of development and application. But, as more and more companies get into this, in order to improve their cars and fuel economy among them, SST trainies will get better and cheaper. So, there is no question in my book that SST will become the trainy to have in the car. Once we test it ourselves, the answer to whether this time is now or a bit later will have to wait!
Sorry for the length, but I was inspired!
Have fun!
Fedja
Racing application! So, my racing is mainly autoX and from that side of things there will be no shifting advantages between the two transmissions, since most of the time we are in the 2nd gear all the way. Now there will be/are some times when we hit rev limiter and typically you don't shift if it is too short before you have to slow down and that covers about 98% of cases. Sometimes, especially if the SST is as good as they say it is, it might be an advantage to actually shift, but overall I don't think it is worth to go for it just for those special cases when it might help. As of the road racing, I think this is already proven that SST is quicker then 5 speed around the track. Even in the auto mode, so no need to cover this one any more. Drag racing is still a toss since we don't know how hard SST can be pushed. But, if we can lunch the car as hard in both cases, shifting speed will be on the SST side. GTR is a proven example that shifting mode can produce very fast take offs, so it all goes to how much is too much!
Max HP capabilities of SST! So, to get back to things, it is assumed/confirmed that SST will not be able to handle higher HP and torque levels. For those people who are going to have their cars in 400+ WHP ranges, and assuming the above is correct, they have to use 5 speed. But, the real question here is how many of those that are claiming this as a bad thing for the SST are actually modify their cars to that level? I doubt it will be significant. I have a lot of friends with a lot of turbo AWD cars that are raced all the time and still very few are above 400 WHP range. So, IMHO I don't think a lot of people will see the limits of either trainy.
Joy of driving with stick!! Yes, this one is high up there!! All of the cars that I drove so far with pedal shifters where either tiptronics or just fake auto-manual trainy (actually just a regular auto trainy) that allows you to shift gears with the buttons. All of them had a huge delay between the time you press on the button to actual gear change and disconnected feel that you get is just plain ugly and worth nothing in my book! There was no joy for my while trying to engage those gears! But, this DSG type trainy is apparently as fast and the best that are out there and disconnected feel is now thing of the past or/and delay is so small that is in tolerable range. To have the real judgment I will have to drive one, but from what people who tried them have written so far it is all highly positive. Since, I am skeptic by nature, I will wait for this one to test it my self, but I do expect it to go either way.
Commuting to work! I see that some people are claiming that they are shifting the hell out of their car and having a ball all the time during this type of commutes, but either I am too old and forgot what I was doing when I was younger or those are just full of it. The truth is that occasionally one would get more spiritual here and there, but most of the time people drive normally (or pretty close to it) while commuting to work and back. Otherwise, either police or unfortunately accident will teach them sooner or later that you have to have a bit more maturity out there! The last part that is very important regarding the commute is commute in stop and go traffic!! Well, my car has a stronger pressure plate and the disk that doesn't like to be slipped, so if I say that I hate stop and go thing it might be understatement. Even with the stock clutch things are no fun. SST has a clear advantage for this kind of driver abuse!!
Perfect shifting quest! Yes, I know a lot about it and still do it here and there as most of the people do! It is fun! No question about it! Except one! What is the part of the actions that you did with perfect shifting that is so much fun? Is it just the fact that you matched the revs? Or, the knowledge that you lost minimum amount of time possible and managed to keep highest speed through the turn due to the perfect control of the car and its ability to accelerate back up as soon as possible? I believe that the correct answer is second one! There is no joy if you just matched the revs if there is not acceleration as a payoff after that! So, I do see the main source of joy acceleration part and ability to take 100% out of the car in the given moment! By taking the shifting part out of the equation, you still have the braking part and hitting of the apex and controlling the car at the edge of adhesion! But, that could be just me!
Coolness factor!! There is no question which of the two trainies is more cool regardless of the age of the driver!
Fuel economy!! It is know that all over the world that fuel economy is a big thing and everyone I know would like to have more miles from each of the gallons that is pumped into the car. The fact here is that SST has the best fuel consumption among all other transmission types. I actually believe that this trainy will be a trainy of the future and eventually replace first and old auto trainy and then even manual trainy. Nowadays, most of the race cars have sequential gearboxes anyway, so this will be just a cheaper version to get similar effects. And, right now the price for the SST trainy is probably higher then it should be mainly because of its early days of development and application. But, as more and more companies get into this, in order to improve their cars and fuel economy among them, SST trainies will get better and cheaper. So, there is no question in my book that SST will become the trainy to have in the car. Once we test it ourselves, the answer to whether this time is now or a bit later will have to wait!
Sorry for the length, but I was inspired!
Have fun!
Fedja
Last edited by MrAWD; Mar 28, 2008 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Added stop and go commute part...
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 191
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From: Spewgene OR
I disagree with all the naysayers about the SST.
It's the same with every car. You should see the BMW boards about the DCT. At first it must suck because it's not a manual, now everybody wants one.
As I've said before, I could go with either one but the 5-speed on the X is just not livable as far as freeway speed. No-one drives 65 anymore, gotta tune your tranny for real world speeds engineers.
It's the same with every car. You should see the BMW boards about the DCT. At first it must suck because it's not a manual, now everybody wants one.
As I've said before, I could go with either one but the 5-speed on the X is just not livable as far as freeway speed. No-one drives 65 anymore, gotta tune your tranny for real world speeds engineers.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
From: Pascagoula, MS
Interesting subject!! I see both sides here and I am still a bit thorned between the two at times. I am the one who enjoys driving and shifting is just part of it. But when you are not a teen, or in 20s or in 30s (I will stop here for now), then things do change a bit regardless you like it or not.
etc, etc, etc...
Sorry for the length, but I was inspired!
Have fun!
Fedja
etc, etc, etc...
Sorry for the length, but I was inspired!
Have fun!
Fedja
You don't have to worry about the length as long as you're not spouting off useless BS, lol. Like I said, I'm going to wait and test drive both before I make my decision and there's a pretty good chance I might get the SST so I can have both after I get the ZR1. The goal is to have over 1,000 HP in the garage. FTMFW!!
Evolved Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 1
From: USA
GSR FTW! And to the OP, the MR is not a lot faster, it's actually slower in a straight line but faster by a hair around a track because of the fast shifts. The gsr will be a lot more mod friendly from what everyone has said so far. If you're an enthusiasts and a purist, then get the gsr. If you want a bit of luxury (if you can even call it that) and don't want to drive a stick, then the MR is for you.
Last edited by STi2EvoX; Apr 10, 2008 at 11:34 PM.
I am choose the GSR over the MR, primarily because of tuning and the love for shifting. There's nothing like down-shifting, heel n toe, and double clutching... I can't ever see myself driving an EVO with an automatic transmission...
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Pascagoula, MS
Evolving Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 409
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From: Roanoke, Va, USA
If the SST is going to be anything like the shifting in the new BMWs mitsubishi can keep that junk. I hated it. No matter what you did it just felt really weird on shifting. If you didnt let out it bucked, it you let out it bucked. I was just thoroughly un-impressed. If its not like BMWs "smg" junk then good job mitsu.
I just saw on youtube that the MR is a lil faster than the GSR. I went back to youtube to find the link to the video for you guys but couldn't find it, if someone else can find it, that'd be great!
Although the MR is faster *STOCK* against the GSR *STOCK*, I think with the Vishnu tune that is coming out and with all the bolt-ons and custom tunes that the customer can do to the GSR, it'll be much more quicker than the MR.
Although the MR is faster *STOCK* against the GSR *STOCK*, I think with the Vishnu tune that is coming out and with all the bolt-ons and custom tunes that the customer can do to the GSR, it'll be much more quicker than the MR.
