DirectorSe7en

iTrader: (12)

^Wow, +100. Finally someone with their head on straight.

Noize

iTrader: (24)

To draw from a similarity, the 335i/135i automatic (called steptronic or just "step") is a true automatic in the sense that it has a torque converter. IMO, its probably nowhere near as good as the SST that will be in the MR. The step cars are faster from a dig, though. They have shorter gearing, better traction management, and faster shifts. On the dyno I use, the steps had 20whp less than the manuals, but the ease of launching, gear spacing, and shift speed more than made up for that power.

That said, I bought a manual 335i back in the day. Why? I don't want a steptronic or automatic.

When it comes to the X, I have read only that the SST is wonderful on track. Still, most people in this country only care about drag racing and modding their cars. One thing I have never heard to be disputed is that the SST is a very expensive piece of equipment. When we increase the power in these cars -and you know we will, because we are Evo owners- the SST becomes much too iffy of a proposition for me.

My Evo VIII was not heavily modded compared to many out there, but it made double the whp it made stock. I would be very afraid to put 450-500whp through the SST. There have been numerous reports in automotive journalism that the ECU will protect the SST and force a limp mode if some extra power was detected.

I agree with both sides that say its too early to call since we don't have enough info on the SST yet. It might rock, it might suck.

One thing that I have said before on a BMW board and is worth repeating here is this: Driving an automatic is like artificially inseminating your wife. It still gets the job done, but you're leaving the most fun part out.

Yes, the SST is not a true automatic with a torque converter, but in mild cars like what we have, there is not a problem with having a manual and a true F1 box would be gross overkill. Its all about preference, and I don't want to click down into drive and let my car shift itself. I want control of the clutch.

I'll go further to say that if the Evo X was SST only, I would never have considered it and would be in a 135i right now. I am sure the SST will be great and will not fail to impress, though.

Taryon

iTrader: (1)

No offense Noize, because I know you mean well from this (and I know you fully realize the difference between "Automatic" and "Automated-Manual"), but why would you use that analogy of driving automatic? And for that matter, you're just confusing people when you say "I don't want to click down into drive and let my car shift itself. I want control of the clutch." Controlling the clutch is really the only thing differenciating the M/T from the SST. The SST still lets you choose what gear you want in "manual mode". You know this. I fully agree with you on the whole 'feeling the clutch' part though -- absolutely.

DirectorSe7en

iTrader: (12)

The whole point of this thread is for people to argue personal opinion as fact. It will never end. Ever. I vote Thread Closure.

IN BEFORE THE LOCK!

Taryon

iTrader: (1)

^ Haha, agreed. That's what makes this so frustrating.. a lot of what people write here is simply their opinion, but it affects those who are reading up and think "Oh man, I'm buying an Evo for performance.. seems like anything but M/T is inferior."

Anyways.. having driven one, I'd personally go for the GSR simply for the feel of the M/T. I am curious to see if I'd really feel like I'm losing any of that "fun" factor when the SST comes out too. Who knows..

jackygor

iTrader: (9)

I would personally opt for 5MT if it is an option in the MR.

ribbie78

iTrader: (8)

i would have to try both before deciding.

BadReputation

gay mr with a/t ... what a disappointment

Kisada

iTrader: (4)

Noize

iTrader: (24)

I've driven automatics that were infinitely better than automated manuals. One such automatic that is better is the 335i steptronic. I think it just crushes the E46 M3 SMG in speed of operation, reliability, and actual performance.

While the SST is an automated manual, the closest car I have driven to it is a VW/Audi DSG. You do have to "click" the transmission out of park, through reverse, and into drive gear. I don't like that. There are a lot of reasons for this. One is that the driveline loss in an automated manual is higher. Still another is the cost to service outlined above. But the biggest one I can think of is that my wife would drive the car if it was an SST. She has no interest in driving it as a manual. I can't think of higher praise to heap on a manual car with a clutch, because in my house, it makes this car truly 100% mine.

The quality of the automated manuals continues to go up, but their adoption into passenger cars like what we have is more due to the fact that people who do not want to operate a driver actuated clutch will now consider purchasing.

If this transmission defies logic and laughs at 500HP with ease, I might change my tune. Until then, I'll remain skeptical. Everything I've read says the SST is just wicked on track at stock power levels. I have no issue with this at all.


I'm pretty sure its not going to get locked. And the whole thread is subjective and about opinion. If you love the SST, who cares what all the traditional manual only guys think, right?

Taryon

iTrader: (1)

That's why mine are all manual as well!

And I agree with what you've stated. I guess the real solution to the whole daily driver ordeal is to simply win the lottery and buy both the GSR and MR. Problem solved.

Keepster13

The SST is a great option for people who are unable to drive a clutch car. (Think of handicaped people). They can now enjoy an Evo.

I love stick vs autos. I have gotten so use to sticks that I have a hard time driving an auto. I always end up almost going thru red lights cuz the damn things dont stop. Have to use the brake pedal so much when I just want to down shift.

I turned down the MR b/c of the SST.

I think auto's are for lazy people.(Except; see above.)

My friend has a G35-S with paddle shifters. He didnt know how to use them until I showed him. My other friend thought you had to blip the throttle with paddle shifters. From my experance, Autos or paddle shift gearboxs are for the masses. Which in production cars they should be. If you are going to race Pro...There is no arguement.

JRock

Right, 'cause that's a slushbox auto with torque convertors and the whole nine yards. It's not a dual-clutch transmission nor a sequential manual gearbox, both of which are more akin to a manual transmission than to a classic automatic.



DCT transmissions are more like what WRC rally cars use (though those are mostly still sequential and not dual-clutch) than the slushbox you find in your father's Oldsmobile or Ford.

People that hate on DCT transmissions, claiming they're just automatics, are about the most ignorant car enthusiasts you can find because they don't have a clue and in this age of instant information they have to work hard to prevent themselvse from learning. They might as well just strap a Folgers can on their exhaust tip and tack a massive triple-decker wing on their trunk and call it a day.

Now, i have no idea how GOOD the Mitsu SST transmission is, but it appears technically to be a true DCT transmission, not a slushbox automatic with poser paddles like the Steptronic or similar items found in the G37 Coupe and the Pontiac Grand Prix. That means it's nothing like those items, but actually similar to the DCTs found in the Nissan GT-R, the new M3, and Audi/VW cars that have DSG. To call the SST an auto and act like it's just an automatic transmission is incredibly dumb. The guy above me is a perfect example, lumping DCTs in with "autos" and thinking that all transmissions with paddleshifters are just automatics with wannabe paddles on them. To that guy (Keepster13): Really, educate yourself just a little and you'll be amazed how much you didn't know about transmissions. A real DCT is nothing like that stupid automatic with paddles you find in a G37 Coupe.

Examples of traditional automatics (What you guys can rightly call Lame):
Steptronic
Tiptronic
Infiniti G37 Coupe's automatic with wannabe paddle-shifters (although it does have rev-matched downshifts which is novel for an automatic)
Your average GM or Ford product with an automatic transmission (even if they have faux paddles on the steering column like a couple Pontiacs offered in recent years).

Examples of DCTs (Where you guys are wrong):
Mitsu's SST
BMW's M-DCT
Audi's DSG (now called S-tronic)
Nissan's DCT
These have more in common with manual transmissions and are actually superior to manuals performance-wise.

svillata

yep, and having driven the VW/AUDI cars with DSG I think that transmission isjust sick... its great and fun as hell... IMO (just my opinion, i know others won't agree) its way more fun and involving than a stick with a clutch pedal. And rumor has it, the Mitsubishi SST is even better (from what others have said who have driven both)

Noize

iTrader: (24)

Read the whole post before you highlight one small portion and go off, please! The top part you quoted was where I was making the pro case for not having a driver actuated clutch. On point, I already stated that the steptronic is a traditional automatic with a torque converter. My point is that even it handily outperforms the E46 M3's SMG, which is not a traditional automatic. Granted the SMG is a little older, but a six speed manual with clutch E46 M3 will outperform an SMG E46 M3 anyday.

I've driven the VW/Audi DSG in turbo four and NA VR6 applications and was not overly impressed. If you don't want to increase the power substantially, you might be able to get away with a transmission like this. The Skyline is a completely different animal, because it was engineered to handle asinine amounts of power.

Bottom line, for the vast majority of Lancer Evolution enthusiasts in the USA, the SST cars will struggle for sales.