yeah well the evo is still better no matter if its the MR or the GSR

 

My dad is bigger than your dad.

 

I don't think evo guys really care about the Ralliart but when Ralliart owners essentially tell them that their car is just as good but less expensive, it's bound to ruffle some feathers.

 

"I think the expense and effort in removing 160 lbs of weight from the MR is being vastly underestimated by both of you. "

160lbs is costly to remove if you keep the full interior including stereo system, but its a well worth modification, and improving performance too If you do it right.
my X GSR still full interior weights now less then 3300 lbs with full tank of gas

so i did over the 160 lbs already And wasn't even a hard effort job at all.

"I don't think you've actually done your homework on the RA other than read the magazine blurbs. "

i'm sure unlike us, you get your info's from your own experience. So your opinion is not like ours come from the real life experience and nothing to do with the magazines. Not to mention , many test drive you did in the Evo and the RA.
ON the track.

so i'm pretty sure you did your home work very well. Specially after i get into more in this information exchange.

 

drive both and see if you are happy with the power levels. if you are into names, then you better get an evo. it's like nike vs. prowings. both are shoes but some kids cant handle being laughed at if they have prowings. good luck.

 

"I realize it will not be gains like the X but it will still have some positive gains I am sure. The RA is rich also just like the X.[/QUOTE]"

The original factory tune which was way over the limit. The Evo actually was choking at 5K rpm. Fact it was hurting the car.
So the 291 hp is with that tune. Now since then at least TWO reflash came out for the the EVO ECU from Mitsubishi and i'm sure the RA will not suffer the same problem . My friend got one/he never mentioned/ i drove one and no hesitation there. So after two flash the Evo is more power full so the gap even bigger between the RA and the EVo. But of course no Factory numbers since the 08 is out already, so they will not change the numbers. But i bet the 09 will have different hp numbers due the fixed ECU program.

"Many people just need a car to get from A to B. Not to race on the streets. In that regard the X is a little overkill for a DD. How often do you really get to lean on your X as far as suspension? I doubt most ever see the track."
that is probably true for the RA but not for the EVo.
Every car when you drive it, use they suspension and breaks , even with highway pulls. Feels more stable and stops sooner. I think you know what i'm talking about.
Everyone i know they using they evo on the street, a way the see the benefits from the breaks and the suspension. Who like the floating car at high speeds..
It is a lame thing to say you need the go only A -to B... and how often... etc. then you are on the wrong forum, try the Camry forum , you will find buddies there.

"The point was made that with a tune or some mods, it may gain enough to be able to hang or beat the MR on a strip. "

the whole point is NOT. with the same mods the MR will gain even more hp and tq then the RA so the gap will be even greater.

"Again, it looks like the RA is putting down 222 AWHP. Where is the GSR stock? So it is no pipe dream to be able to gain .3 on the MR. The SST should be fine as it should still be within MR torque range. "

the evos usually have around 15% drive train loss. So because it is identical drive train to the IX and the X MR tranny , we bravely can say the 222 whp is really optimistic. If that is true then the RA should be around 255 hp. out from factory. But the drag times will clear that.

remeber the 291 hp is come out from Mitsubishi with the factory crappy tune.
so here is the info about the GSR base line bone stock.


"Just got back a couple of hours ago from having my bone stock EVO X tuned by the great Sean Ivey.
I would like to start off by saying Sean is and always has been professional while doing business with him.
Up until today i used to have a X but my Mitsu morphed into an EVO in about 3 hours.
Redline was bumped up to 8000 rpms, 2 step is set at 5900 rpms and boost is set at 25lbs tapering down.

Anyway onto the numbers.

Here is my baseline pulls:

1st: 270.25whp 279.41 ft. lbs.
2nd: 264.52whp 275.68 ft. lbs.

Heres where it was when it was all finished:

313.68 whp 317.65 ft. lbs.

BONE STOCK!!!!

I will be posting up the dyno sheets as soon as my scanner starts working"

http://www.evoxforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7775

about the SST , if its a same as the MR , which is i doubt, then the RA will be limited out from the box anyway. Of course you can fixed that later on , but here is the deal. If they already changed gear, what makes you think the holding capacity and the rpm program is a same? The car tranny was designed for the RA engine and drive train And HP -TQ.
It is a different tranny tune and and gearing in the MR. Also missing the super sport mode , which is indicates the less aggressive shifting too, wich is important for racing. Besides DO you fully understand the importance of the gearing, right ?




thats all for now, to chew it on

 

@ both of you: No, there's no flawed logic here and I'm not offbase on anything, I think you're just not understanding what I'm saying. Dealers aren't going to discout the RA when it first comes out just like they didn't discount the EVO until it had been out for a little while. Sure there were some dealers that were willing to cut a bit off of the price, I bought mine the day it came out for invoice, but that was a hard to negotiate deal that I arranged by pre ordering the car 5 months before it even came out. These days, because the car has been out for a while and because the car market is in the crapper right now, they can be had for below invoice!

I've seen some dealers selling them for as low as 30k, which is a steal of a deal. Plus mitsu is doing 0% 60 mo financing right now on the GSR. But again, deals like that weren't around until the car had been out a while. Either way, it doesn't even matter what you get an RA for even if it were heavily discounted because if you can afford to spend 27 on a ralliart then paying only 3k more for an evo should be an obvious choice. The GSR is the only real EVO right now anyway IMO so who cares about the price difference between the MR and RA?

The MR is made for people who want a toned down EVO wth softer suspension, an auto tranny, and some extra refinement and to me this deviates too much from the EVO heritage. My main problem with the car isn't even the TC SST, it's the fact that the suspension is softer sprung to give a more luxurious ride at the expense of handling, which is what the EVO is supposed to be all about. The MR sacrifices an average of .03 gs in all of the magazines and to me that's unacceptable.

What does this have to do with the RA you ask? I'll tell you. The problem is that I think you're comparing the wrong cars. You should be comparing the RA to the GSR, not the MR. Why? Because the GSR more accurately represents what an EVO is and should be, and it's more comparably equiped in terms of refinement and interior appointments to the RA (sadly). Comparing the RA to the MR is like comparing a camaro to a corvette that has been watered down and has an inflated price from expensive and heavy performance robbing options like an auto tranny, leather, nav, heated seats, and added sound insulation and then saying how much of a better deal the camaro is.

It's bullsht, because you should be comparing it to the lighter, faster, cheaper, manual tranny corvette. The fact that the trannys are the same in the case of the RA and MR doesn't mean that they should be compared to each other. Fact is that for what it would cost you to buy a turbo back exhaust, intake, and a reflash tune for your RA you could damn near buy the GSR for what they're going for now and that, my friend, should be a no brainer. You would be getting an infinitely more capable, far superior car for near the same amount of money that you would've spent on the RA and mods. How's that for "logic?"

Oh and BTW dboz, those dyno numbers you quoted are BS. A car making 237 at the crank will not put down 222 at the wheels. That's nothing more than the product of a high reading dyno that's been calibrated to read way higher than what the car is actually making. Perfect example: Buschur Racing's mustang dyno and TTP's mustang dyno (which I have a feeling is where you're getting that BS number from). Now both dynos are the same type. They are both load based Mustang AWD dynos, and they SHOULD be calibrated the same but... what's that? Buschur's dyno shows a stock X at 215 whp and TTP's dyno shows a stock X at like 270? Hmmm. Interesting, don't you think? On a properly calibrated mustang or dyno dynamics dyno your 237 hp RA will put down about 160 whp. You have much to learn, young skywalker.

 

mm its like 330 and M3 MR much better handling and a lil more power. MR looks much better... MR is MR. RA is not an evo.... so... MR.

 

I was going to just bow out of this thread since it's going no where fast, but you're way off again.

First off, the RA was already for sale at various dealers for $2k under MSRP the day they arrived. Second, an equivalently equipped GSR is $32k currently at southcoast which is the cheapest anyone has reported. That's a $5k price difference.

Third, if you think the RA is going to lose 30% hp to drivetrain loss (160 whp??), while the EVO only loses ~10% according to the numbers posted by Rob above, then you're delusional.

The 222 awhp number was reported by XS Engineering.

 

First off, there have been a couple dealers that forum members here have reported selling as low as 30k and I bought mine for 31k before options, so you are wrong. Again, it doesn't matter if the RA is being discounted also because if you can afford to spend 27k on an RA then 3k more for an evo is a steal and should be a no brainer. Even at 5k more it's a good deal. Hell, at full retail it's still worth it because to convert an RA to an EVO would cost far more than what the EVO costs. The EVO is a better deal stock for stock then the RA i and there isn't any denying that. Second, I never said that the EVO loses 10 % through the tranny and the RA would lose 30.

On a dyno dynamics dyno (read what I say more carefully next time), a stock evo X at 291 hp puts down about 220 whp, which is almost exactly 25 %. Now if an RA has 237 at the crank, then a 25 % loss would equal 177. HOWEVER, THE SST TRANNY HAS BEEN PROVEN TO LOSE ABOUT 15 WHP MORE AS PROVEN BY AMS FROM THEIR DYNO TESTS. So, that means that on an EVO MR with the SST tranny on a dyno dynamics (which would show even more of a loss compared to AMS' dyno jet but I'll keep the same number to not make the RA look any worse) the car is losing about 30%. And 30% powertrain loss on a 237 hp car = 166. I guess that either I'm delusional or you can't do math.

 

I'm the only Ralliart owner in this freakin thread. And i dont recall telling any Evo owner that my car was better then theirs.

 

Ever heard of something being underrated? Also you are failing to factor in gas consumption, insurance costs, and taxes on a 32k car compared to a 25k. The Evo is more expensive in all categories, and some people feel its not worth it (me being one of them).

 

well then dont be in the EVO forums go to the ralliart forums

 

Wow, shocking that you bring up that specific dyno as your example, 'cause just FYI...XS Engineering is using that exact ****ing dyno type. Here's your link math wiz. Keep on hating, months from now you'll feel like a fool when tuners present their results. Have you never heard of an underrated HP number from the factory? Maybe some of you EVO owners should find out how the STI guys cope with all the nasty WRX' out on the road...obviously you feel very threatened by the potential of the RA to continue rambling on inconclusively. Did you ever think this underrated factory HP number might help to explain how the RA ran a 14.1 vs. the 13.7 an MR runs? Strange huh?

http://jdm-insider.com/Blogs/Eric/?p=1054

 

Hey genius, that dyno isn't a dyno dynamics dyno, it's a "dynamic" dyno which is a totally different brand and reads higher than even a dyno jet, "wiz." Second, the reason that I was quoting a dyno dynamics is because they are the most accurate dynos in the world and it is also what my local shop uses so I was able to give a perfect example of what an EVO X puts out vs what an RA would put out. If an MR loses about 30 % according to a dyno dynamics then so will an RA.

You don't seem to understand how different dynos read very differently. You're one of those peope that looks at a high reading dyno graph of an RA and then compares it to low reading graph of an EVO X on a dyno dynamics and you say, "see, the power isn't that far off so the RA must be underrated!" Different dynos can't be compared! Again, let me try to educate you on this because you clearly don't get it. A dyno dynamics reads a X at 220 whp while a dyno jet will read around 250, and mustangs, although usually low reading, can be calibrated to read higher than even a dyno jet like TTP's showing a stock X at like 260+.

Then you have dynos like the one that XS is using, that you mistakenly thought was a dyno dynamics, and those typically read even higher than Dyna Packs, which usually read higher than dyno jets. You have a lot to learn pal, so in the future when you don't know what you are talking about, try not to fire your mouth off like some punk and try to learn from people who clearly know more than you do. Moving on...

I assure you that the RA isn't being underrated from the factory, that's just wishful thinking from a kid who can't afford an EVO and thinks he can turn his RA into a poor man's MR. Oh and no, for the power to weight ratio of the RA a 14.1 sounds fine enough. A GSR runs a 13.3 stock, so I aint skeered of no POS RA! You my friend, are the only one "rambling on inconclusively" with your naive wishful thinking and blind views with how easy you think it is to turn a WRX into an STi or an RA into an EVO.

As I said many times before, it will be easy to make an RA match a stock MR in the straights but after that you still have an inferior car that will lose miserably in handling and braking and every other category. An RA will never be an EVO no matter what you do to it so just get over it.

Oh, and since you brought up STi owners "coping with modded WRXs," I used to have a modded STi and used to rape modded WRXs all the time so I aint affraid. People like you argue the point that "well, for the price difference it's cheaper to make an RA as fast as a stock EVO than it would be to buy an evo, blah blah, so you EVO guys should watch out." My response... I don't care! Money isn't a factor for me like it is for you so I can afford to buy the EVO AND mod it as well, which means that you will never catch someone like me. Sorry.