^The crank shaft is forged in the STi and so are the rods. I don't believe the WRX has those, at least they didn't when the wrx was still a 2.0 liter when the STi first came out here. 9 times out of 10 the higher end models that have higher output versions of the engine found in a lower end model are going to have engine strengthening components to handle the increase in power and still keep the car reliable for warranty purposes. As mentioned before though, the point is that the ralliart will never have the potential of an EVO, and even if one can be made to go faster in a straight line, it will still lose in every other category; power output on stock components, handling, chassis rigidity, steering response, grip, feedback, braking, balance and poise, the list just goes on and on. Look, I'm not saying that the Ralliart is a bad car, but IT'S NOT AN EVO AND NEVER WILL BE. This shouldn't even be a discussion. It's like asking which is a better car, a base corvette or a Z06. Sure you can make a base corvette faster than a stock Z06, but put even a little money into modding the Z06 and it's game over. Nuff said.

 

I go to NASIOC lots and according to many posters the engines are all the same as part numbers for internals all cross. Subaru has also never claimed that the internals are different.

 

Again, I was referencing the old STi to the old WRX. Perhaps things have changed but again, without upgrading the stock turbo, fuel system, and intercooler to match the STi, the STi will still be faster with the same mods. Again, even with enough mods to make the wrx faster in the straights than an STi or a ralliart faster than an EVO, the handling, braking, AWD system, and steering system of the STi and EVO will always make them the higher performing cars.

 

Removing 160 lbs of weight from the MR is easier than adding ~50 crank horsepower to the RA? That's being realistic?

The only known, documented transmission difference between the MR and the RA is the removal of super sport mode, and the taller 5th and 6th gears, so I'm not sure how the transmission comes into play in this discussion.

And I'm not sure where the speculation that the RA won't ever be able to match EVO power comes from...there's no logic behind that when the block and internals are the same on both cars. Some amazingly complex intercooler piping configuration and a different intake? The turbo is the only legitimate engine difference that will put the EVO out on top when comparing stock turbos, if you changed out everything else and retuned. The RA dynoed at 222 awhp stock according to XS.

 

Well if you think i'm the one who speculating here, then proove me wrong on this.
The evo does have a bigger turbo and intercooler and better BOV to hold boost etc. So even with just a flash, the Evo will gain more whp and wtq then the RA will. With a big % difference. And that is a simple non biased fact.
150 lb is easy to remove , but add almost a 70+ hp to the crank to the RA is impossible with only a tune. This is also not a speculation , It is a technical fact.
The RA tranny is based on the MR tranny . So it is not a same. Even a gearing is not a same. I think "based" is not equal with the terms of "same". There for the performance wil not be a same also.
But i can be wrong on this one. Although i doubt. As far as i know Mitsubishi. Just like the IC and the turbo is not a direct bolt ons, on the "same" engine, the tranny will have it's own issues with the WTQ gain, in the RA too.

So where is the speculations? You are the one who , think the RA will gain a same wtq and whp equal with the evo .

but hey. you tune your RA and if you come up with the same whp as a bone stock tuned evo X does then, you were right. But at least you should go over 310 whp to being equal.
And the we will see if you gain a same, how is your tranny will work vs the MR tranny in 1/4 mile. Or the Evo GSR.

 

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying about the RA vs. the MR. I'm not going to assume that a simple tune on the RA will bring it up to stock MR numbers, and I wouldn't assume the RA would surpass a tuned MR, that's a ridiculous claim for anyone to make. The point is it will not be difficult to make the RA faster than an MR with similar mods because of that weight difference. I still don't know why you would assume that the build quality of the RA SST is different from the MR because it has different gearing, you're basically saying it's not capable of holding the same power based on that alone.

Road & Track tested the 2008 Evo MR at 13.7@100.2 mph with a 0-60 of 5.3s. The 2009 RA tested by the same ran a 14.1@97 mph with a 0-60 of 5.4s all with 60 less horsepower.

 

If you can afford the MR, buy the MR. It would cost more to make the Ralliart perform like the MR than it would to just buy the faster car in the first place. Sure the Ralliart is lighter but it also lacks key components that make the MR as potent as it is.
To clear something up, once the WRX got the 2.5 L motor, it was essentially the same as the STI engine wise. From what I remember there are some minor differences (heads are different, pistons are different) but not enough to hold the WRX back by any means.

 

@ Mors: This is getting old. First off, what rob was saying was that adding power to overcome the weight of the MR is easier than adding power to the RA, at least in stock form because the fuel system and turbo/intercooler of the X will pump out a lot more power with a reflash than the RA's setup will. I will say this though, the power holding capacity of the MR and RA ialike s limited compared to the GSR because those SST trannies can't hold much more than 350 at the wheels. Since there's no manual transmission option for the RA you are capped at that.

That's another major difference between the EVO line and the RA; the MR is for the guy looking for an evo with the convenience of an auto, whereas the GSR is for the guy who wants something more raw, with a higher level of driver involvement and a tranny that can handle big power increases for racing purposes.

You have no option like that and thus your modding potential is capped at whatever that tranny can hold and it can't be modified from what mitsu has said. It's a sealed unit that can't even be serviced. If something goes wrong with it, there's no replacing or upgrading clutches, the whole unit has to be replaced. It's in the training videos online and it might even be in the owner's manual if you don't believe me.

Again, the main point here is that even if you modify the RA to beat a stock evo in a straight line it will STILL LOSE IN EVERY OTHER CATEGORY. IT WILL NEVER BE AS CAPABLE AS AN EVO PERIOD, END OF STORY. Get over it man! I'm not trying to be a jerk, but there's a reason that the EVO costs 10k more than the ralliart, and some mods can't even be transfered over. Here's a quote from the most recent super street article abou the Ralliart.

"However, the Ralliart's B411's similarities to the Evo X end there. It relies on a smaller, single-scroll TD04HL turbo and an intercooler that differs so much in design, it would be cost-prohibitive, not to mention extremely inefficient, to swap the parts from a X over to create a poorman's GSR; in which case, Mitsubishi actually insists that you buy the Evo X instead. But given its differences, the Ralliart engine is impressive considering it's the next step up from the base-level Lancer GTS. You get 237 hp and 253 lb-ft-so in actuality, this is a spec'd up GTS, not a detuned GSR.

This means that all the aftermarket support for the EVO will not transfer over to the RA as it will need it's own unique parts. Sure some stuff will be interchangeable, but it's looking like it's just not set up for modding like the EVO is. In the end of the article they do say that from what AMS has been able to do with the MR that it's looking like it's very possible for the RA to be able to make enough power from mods to beat a stock X in the straights for less money. I've never denied this and even stated this from the beginning, however again I will say that straight line speed only one facet of a performance car and the EVO will still crush an RA in every other category.

Sure it costs more to start with, but look at what you're getting for the money difference. The recaro package for the RA costs 2700 dollars, so now you're at 27. Add in the rockford fosgate premium system and that's another 2 grand, so now you're at 29k. The GSR lists for 35 with the rockford system, but prices on cars are all so low right now that a GSR with the SSS can be had for like 31 at many dealers, which means that you're at no more than 33k out the door after taxes and even less if you trade a car in because you only pay taxes on the difference of your trade.

Then think about all of the other performance benefits of the EVO over the ralliart, like the vastly superior suspension, super wide track and body work to accomodate it, extra braces and seam welds on the chassis, better wheels/tires, far superior brakes, way better AWD system, better steering rack system with a much shorter ratio, the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on. If you have the money to spend there is no comparison between the two cars and in this economy the pricing of the GSR, which is the way to go anyway IMO, isn't that far off from the RA making it a FAR better deal. RA FTL bro, sorry.

 

Looks like both the RA and MR will be capped at 350 hp.

 

You're way off on many points as you were earlier in thread, I don't think you've actually done your homework on the RA other than read the magazine blurbs.

At no point did I compare the RA to the GSR because I'm well aware that the 5sp is going to handle more power and be better overall than either the RA or the MR for mods.

I think the expense and effort in removing 160 lbs of weight from the MR is being vastly underestimated by both of you.

The Recaro RA(the stereo is included in that package) for $27k and the SSS GSR is $33k...with the MR coming in at $15k more than an RA at $42k.

If you have the money buy the MR, but don't underestimate what people are going to do with the RA is all I'm saying. I won't debate it further though, I'll let the aftermarket speak for itself in the next few months.

 

More flawed logic. So if the GSR is being shorted by the dealer why do you think the RA will not be also. Knock 2-3k off the RA and now it is 24-25k. Still 7-8k less than the GSR. However, the point of the RA is to get the SST cheap. Compared to a MR you are looking at 13-14k less for the RA. You can do a few mods and still have 10k left over for gas.

You are greatly missing the point. No one is saying the RA is going to beat an EVO on a track. Modded or otherwise. The point was made that with a tune or some mods, it may gain enough to be able to hang or beat the MR on a strip. That is all. If the MR gets modded, then it will be better. PERIOD. NO ONE thinks they are going to mod a RA and get to EVO specs in handling. It is a ridiculous argument.

Again, it looks like the RA is putting down 222 AWHP. Where is the GSR stock? So it is no pipe dream to be able to gain .3 on the MR. The SST should be fine as it should still be within MR torque range.

Many people just need a car to get from A to B. Not to race on the streets. In that regard the X is a little overkill for a DD. How often do you really get to lean on your X as far as suspension? I doubt most ever see the track.

Also, if TTP can decode the MR, then the zchip should be OK for the RA also. I realize it will not be gains like the X but it will still have some positive gains I am sure. The RA is rich also just like the X.

 

People keep on quoting this 222 AWHP but what does that actually mean? If a stock MR puts down 280 AWHP on that dyno, you're 60 HP down with the Ralliart. Gaining 60 HP is going to be very hard, people are unbelievably naive if they think they can pick that up with just a tune, hell, even with a TBE 60 HP is going to be a struggle considering the size of the turbo in the Ralliart. Where the Ralliart will shine is torque, the small turbo will spool up quickly especially with a tune and an exhaust. I wouldn't be surprised if Ralliarts break 300 WTQ, the older WRX was exactly the same way but it struggled with HP because of the turbo. the WRX vs. STI comparison is a good reference for the RA vs. Evo comparison. It's quite easy to make a WRX as fast in a straight line as a stock STI, all you need is a tune and a TBE. However, the two cars feel fundamentally different and if you do any track events, the STI is a completely different beast. The power comes on differently, the brakes are stronger, the transmission is different, the suspension is harder, the LSDs are different, it would cost more to make a WRX perform like an STI than it would to just buy a damn STI. The RA is further limited by the lancer suspension and it's slimmer fenders (meaning you can't run wide tires without fender rolling). If people are happy with a RA, that's great but they need to stop trying to rationalize their decision with illogical arguments. The RA is not a baby Evo, it's a GTS on steroids. If you try to make it an Evo, you'll just end up disappointed and pissed off.

 

i would get the GSR not the MR

 

@ambystom: That's what I was trying to say all along but people don't want to listen. Well put sir.

 

You Evo guys should be welcoming the Ralliart to the lineup, not quoting every little part on the car that makes you better. You share the same exact engine and the MR guys share the same tranny. Everyone can learn something from one another.