Originally Posted by STi2EvoX

Hey genius, that dyno isn't a dyno dynamics dyno, it's a "dynamic" dyno which is a totally different brand and reads higher than even a dyno jet, "wiz." Second, the reason that I was quoting a dyno dynamics is because they are the most accurate dynos in the world and it is also what my local shop uses so I was able to give a perfect example of what an EVO X puts out vs what an RA would put out. If an MR loses about 30 % according to a dyno dynamics then so will an RA.

You don't seem to understand how different dynos read very differently. You're one of those peope that looks at a high reading dyno graph of an RA and then compares it to low reading graph of an EVO X on a dyno dynamics and you say, "see, the power isn't that far off so the RA must be underrated!" Different dynos can't be compared! Again, let me try to educate you on this because you clearly don't get it. A dyno dynamics reads a X at 220 whp while a dyno jet will read around 250, and mustangs, although usually low reading, can be calibrated to read higher than even a dyno jet like TTP's showing a stock X at like 260+.

Then you have dynos like the one that XS is using, that you mistakenly thought was a dyno dynamics, and those typically read even higher than Dyna Packs, which usually read higher than dyno jets. You have a lot to learn pal, so in the future when you don't know what you are talking about, try not to fire your mouth off like some punk and try to learn from people who clearly know more than you do. Moving on...

I assure you that the RA isn't being underrated from the factory, that's just wishful thinking from a kid who can't afford an EVO and thinks he can turn his RA into a poor man's MR. Oh and no, for the power to weight ratio of the RA a 14.1 sounds fine enough. A GSR runs a 13.3 stock, so I aint skeered of no POS RA! You my friend, are the only one "rambling on inconclusively" with your naive wishful thinking and blind views with how easy you think it is to turn a WRX into an STi or an RA into an EVO.

As I said many times before, it will be easy to make an RA match a stock MR in the straights but after that you still have an inferior car that will lose miserably in handling and braking and every other category. An RA will never be an EVO no matter what you do to it so just get over it.

Oh, and since you brought up STi owners "coping with modded WRXs," I used to have a modded STi and used to rape modded WRXs all the time so I aint affraid. People like you argue the point that "well, for the price difference it's cheaper to make an RA as fast as a stock EVO than it would be to buy an evo, blah blah, so you EVO guys should watch out." My response... I don't care! Money isn't a factor for me like it is for you so I can afford to buy the EVO AND mod it as well, which means that you will never catch someone like me. Sorry.

Originally Posted by STi2EvoX

Hey genius, that dyno isn't a dyno dynamics dyno, it's a "dynamic" dyno which is a totally different brand and reads higher than even a dyno jet, "wiz." Second, the reason that I was quoting a dyno dynamics is because they are the most accurate dynos in the world and it is also what my local shop uses so I was able to give a perfect example of what an EVO X puts out vs what an RA would put out. If an MR loses about 30 % according to a dyno dynamics then so will an RA.

You don't seem to understand how different dynos read very differently. You're one of those peope that looks at a high reading dyno graph of an RA and then compares it to low reading graph of an EVO X on a dyno dynamics and you say, "see, the power isn't that far off so the RA must be underrated!" Different dynos can't be compared! Again, let me try to educate you on this because you clearly don't get it. A dyno dynamics reads a X at 220 whp while a dyno jet will read around 250, and mustangs, although usually low reading, can be calibrated to read higher than even a dyno jet like TTP's showing a stock X at like 260+.

Then you have dynos like the one that XS is using, that you mistakenly thought was a dyno dynamics, and those typically read even higher than Dyna Packs, which usually read higher than dyno jets. You have a lot to learn pal, so in the future when you don't know what you are talking about, try not to fire your mouth off like some punk and try to learn from people who clearly know more than you do. Moving on...

I assure you that the RA isn't being underrated from the factory, that's just wishful thinking from a kid who can't afford an EVO and thinks he can turn his RA into a poor man's MR. Oh and no, for the power to weight ratio of the RA a 14.1 sounds fine enough. A GSR runs a 13.3 stock, so I aint skeered of no POS RA! You my friend, are the only one "rambling on inconclusively" with your naive wishful thinking and blind views with how easy you think it is to turn a WRX into an STi or an RA into an EVO.

As I said many times before, it will be easy to make an RA match a stock MR in the straights but after that you still have an inferior car that will lose miserably in handling and braking and every other category. An RA will never be an EVO no matter what you do to it so just get over it.

Oh, and since you brought up STi owners "coping with modded WRXs," I used to have a modded STi and used to rape modded WRXs all the time so I aint affraid. People like you argue the point that "well, for the price difference it's cheaper to make an RA as fast as a stock EVO than it would be to buy an evo, blah blah, so you EVO guys should watch out." My response... I don't care! Money isn't a factor for me like it is for you so I can afford to buy the EVO AND mod it as well, which means that you will never catch someone like me. Sorry.

Originally Posted by STi2EvoX

People don't understand that dynos read differently or understand what ambystom was saying about how launching two cars that are 50-60 hp apart isn't going to make for huge differences in 0-60 times. They also don't understand that a half a second difference in the 1/4 is a huge difference visually, as that will be the difference of several car lengths.

Mors, I am not trying to be insulting, I'm really not. Matter of fact, I would like to apologize for being a bit abrasive with you. You just have a lot to learn I think, because judging from your comments it's pretty apparent that you are somewhat new to performance tuning and don't have enough firsthand experience with building and modifying cars to know what kinds of limitations certain setups can have. We all have to start somewhere man so it's all good.

My point about all the dyno stuff was that XS' dyno is very high reading, and that's fine but you didn't care to include what a stock X makes on THEIR dyno but rather compared it to what you have heard X's make on other dynos. When a X dynos on a low reading dyno like a dyno dynamics and shows 220 whp you can't compare the two and say that they are close in HP and that the RA must just be way underrated. The fact is that a X on XS' dyno will most likely make somewhere in the neighborhood of 280 whp.

It's all relative to how that dyno reads and that's all that I was trying to say. I think that what I was saying went over your head and you though that I was just discrediting the RA's potential which I promise you is not the case. I think the RA is a good car and fills the void of not having a WRX competitor in mitsu's lineup. It is, however, a WRX competitor and will never be competitive with the STi or EVO without lots of money that in the end would've been better spent by buying an EVO to begin with. I hope that you understand what I am saying now and I hope that there's no hard feelings.

Originally Posted by Mors

No hard feelings, I'll leave this thread where it is. While I don't own currently own an EVO, I own a few cars that I've built by hand myself (69 GTO RA3 400, Integra DA B20/VTEC ~200 whp NA) so I do know a thing or two despite your best guess. It was my mistake turning this into an EVO vs. RA discussion, when really I'm just interested to see the potential of the RA in the hands of the various distinguished tuners in the Mitsubishi community

Originally Posted by ambystom01

Jesus christ, I can't believe how silly some of the arguments have become. I'll start will all the dyno crap, you cannot compare the results of dyno X with dyno Y even if they are the same dyno type. Every dyno reads differently, it's simply the nature of the game. Moreover, the environmental conditions can be different which will change the results. The 220 AWHP may be correct but only for that dyno , on other dynos I guarantee you that the Ralliart will post numbers less than 200 AWHP. An 07 WRX puts down about 170 AWHP and it has the same HP rating. 220 AWHP is about what a stock STI puts down on a number of the dynos around here. Evos put down the same numbers as well.
Second up, this idea that the Ralliart is underrated. Answer me this, why would Mitsubishi underrate the Ralliart when it's competitors are posting higher numbers? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If they're trying to one up the WRX or the MS3 or the Cobalt SS, they're not going to list the performance numbers as lower than what they really are.
Third up, the 1/4 mile times. While yes the Ralliart does post a similar time to the MR, the major reason for this is the AWD. The fact is HP isn't that big of a deal when it comes to getting off the line fast, there is a decreased return as the power goes up. What this means is a 200 HP car will get off the line substantially faster than a 100 HP car but a 250 HP car won't get off the line substantially faster than a 200 HP car. This continues as the power goes up. In the 1/4 mile, the Ralliart can keep up because it's able to stay in it's powerband and it weighs less. However, at the track the MR will absolutely destroy it. On the street, the MR will absolutely destroy it. They are two completely different cars designed for completely different purposes.
As far as suggesting that Evo owners are jealous or afraid of the Ralliart's potential, you have to be kidding me. The Evo is a far superior performer and it will cost Ralliart owners more to make their car perform and feel the same as the Evo than it would to just buy the Evo. The only thing Evo owners need to be jealous of is the ignorance displayed by some people since ignorance is bliss.

Originally Posted by olmoscd

I like how there's an actual fight now between Evo fans and RA fans because of the claims that the RA can achieve the performance of the more expensive Evo without spending as much.

Before the 09 RA was announced, there was no arguing about whether a RA can ever be in the performance realm of an Evo regardless of the money invested. No one denies that Non-Evo Lancers were slow garbage even if it was a "mighty RA."

NOW, there's actually an argument about the better buy. I think that's an indication of the RA actually rising to a new level. A level where there's a closer gap between it and the Evo. Looking at this thread, it's apparent that Evo owners feel threatened by this.

I, however, don't feel threatened at all. I'd like to see the RA become a car that with less than the price of an Evo you can outperform any Evo in any arena. Unfortunately I think this will never happen. While the gap between the RA and the Evo has gotten closer, it's not enough. The bottom line is that for someone looking for all around performance, the Evo, like it's always been, is hands-down a better buy.

Emphasis on "all around performance" though. While it MIGHT be likely in the near future to spend less than what an Evo costs on a RA + mods and get more straight line performance, you can spend less than what a RA costs on a Kia + mods and go faster in a straight line. Seriously you can.

So again, don't give me that crap about you RA beating my Evo because 1) You spent more on your car and mods than what I spent on my Evo and 2) It's still not on-par with it on all around performance. Great job numb nuts, you could be driving an Evo right now.

/rant