MR hate... a love note
i dont want to do this , i like you a lot, but you should drive one.
It is very similar feeling as to driving a dog-box sequential with a butterfly. It is not exactly like that, but this one is close.
Turn off everything and go for manual mode, you will love it. And yes, if you dont like butterfly then use the "old seems like sequential method" use the stick. So you wont leave both hands on the steering.
This SST is damn good for what it is.
two things drive me a way from it in racing, and that has nothing to do with " im not being in control or less pleasure to drive".
One is the price , second is a weight. Actually if i think deeper is four... LOL
the maintenance and serviceability too.
But other wise, talking about "less driver car" and "computer does instead of me" etc, childish. Not one true race car is lacking computerized equipments and the only thing is give them boundaries in that field , the rules to make them not so much faster as they are. Or try to make them progressing slower .
And no one can argue the race car is not a driver car, i hope ... LOL
This SST is truly astonishing for a DD weekend warrior car for the price range and the performance its deliver.
Rob
ps: now i feel bad.. so i put one picture up for you
i loved this car , but i like my X 1000000000 times better and believe it or not , i think both car is challenging to drive at the limit, despite the fact the X has all around computer vs the fully mechanical evo 2 integrale
It is very similar feeling as to driving a dog-box sequential with a butterfly. It is not exactly like that, but this one is close.
Turn off everything and go for manual mode, you will love it. And yes, if you dont like butterfly then use the "old seems like sequential method" use the stick. So you wont leave both hands on the steering.
This SST is damn good for what it is.
two things drive me a way from it in racing, and that has nothing to do with " im not being in control or less pleasure to drive".
One is the price , second is a weight. Actually if i think deeper is four... LOL
the maintenance and serviceability too.
But other wise, talking about "less driver car" and "computer does instead of me" etc, childish. Not one true race car is lacking computerized equipments and the only thing is give them boundaries in that field , the rules to make them not so much faster as they are. Or try to make them progressing slower .
And no one can argue the race car is not a driver car, i hope ... LOL
This SST is truly astonishing for a DD weekend warrior car for the price range and the performance its deliver.
Rob
ps: now i feel bad.. so i put one picture up for you
i loved this car , but i like my X 1000000000 times better and believe it or not , i think both car is challenging to drive at the limit, despite the fact the X has all around computer vs the fully mechanical evo 2 integrale
Last edited by Robevo RS; Jan 31, 2011 at 05:08 PM.
I'd like to hear this as well...
This isn't a motorcycle that slipping the clutch in a corner to keep rpms up and centripetal force.
You control the car with 3 inputs. Steering, brakes, gas. It's all a matter of physics. I'm not sure where you are talking about this clutch deal unless you're talking about launching. Then I get it. But even then, looking at the 2012 GT-R, the computer can be more accurate than human.
Another advantage of the SST over the 5-speed that is often over looked? You can shift in the middle of a corner without losing stability because it shifts so quickly.
This isn't a motorcycle that slipping the clutch in a corner to keep rpms up and centripetal force.
You control the car with 3 inputs. Steering, brakes, gas. It's all a matter of physics. I'm not sure where you are talking about this clutch deal unless you're talking about launching. Then I get it. But even then, looking at the 2012 GT-R, the computer can be more accurate than human.
Another advantage of the SST over the 5-speed that is often over looked? You can shift in the middle of a corner without losing stability because it shifts so quickly.
That should never happened in the mid corner, then you cruise it through and learn from it. Dont ever do it.
You might think its that fast, but the human is not , so either way will not give any advantage , since the driver will be distracted and the concept is already doomed.
Also the computer just as good as the human behind it, ever heard that one ? LOL
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: Burbank CA
The critical assumption, per the argument above, is that one is expanding his max attention rate during the drive. That's certainly true in a competitive situation. Outside of that, not so much. The former was stipulated earlier in the discussion and the latter is, well, rather obvious.
If one defines control as always having both hands on the wheel, there's nothing to debate. <grin>
Guys, this isn't a manual vs automatic debate. A claim was made that simply can't be due to the nature of the beast. Either the individual miss-wrote, or meant something else. Clearly, he's not a stupid man. Now we have automatic owners coming in, seemingly, to defend their transmissions, when there's really nothing to defend against. So an auto doesn't offer the same degree of control as a manual? That's just how it is, like water being wet and a flame feeling hot to the touch. You can't debate away the physical reality of the situation. Sheesh!
If one defines control as always having both hands on the wheel, there's nothing to debate. <grin>
Guys, this isn't a manual vs automatic debate. A claim was made that simply can't be due to the nature of the beast. Either the individual miss-wrote, or meant something else. Clearly, he's not a stupid man. Now we have automatic owners coming in, seemingly, to defend their transmissions, when there's really nothing to defend against. So an auto doesn't offer the same degree of control as a manual? That's just how it is, like water being wet and a flame feeling hot to the touch. You can't debate away the physical reality of the situation. Sheesh!
Last edited by kmart888; Feb 1, 2011 at 09:50 AM.
I have no doubt that the auto is quicker and easier to manage on the track/canyon/etc than the manual. I think this goes without saying, as it only stands to reason, given fewer inputs to modulate. I just question the control factor. During the course of the day, one uses the clutch quite a bit to gain a given position. This option is eliminated with an automatic. As such, it cannot offer more control by definition.
The thing I loved about the MR I drove was the ability to change gears anytime. In the GSR, certain parts of corners are effected by shifting. The MR is not like that at all, its smoother and much faster than a person can ever be. The thing that is disarming in an SST is that you can hit a very sharp corner at perfect entry and exit at WOT. The car can shift mid exit and there is zero disruption to the chassis. Even if you can shift perfectly smoothly in a manual and not have this issue, the cumulative effect of lightning fast upshifts on a racetrack will really pay a huge dividend in laptimes.
I am not trying to sell you on it at all, because I know you are like me and would not buy an SST. I AM trying to get you to drive one, though, because I think you would appreciate to see how berserk the SST is compared to something outdated like an SMG.
I drove that MR fully expecting (I daresay hoping to) hate it, but I really liked it a lot.
Now there are some reasons I would not buy one, but if all of them but interface feel could be abolished, I'd consider one.
SST deterrents for me:
1) Torque limitations: There are real failures and higher levels. There are very few of these transmissions in the 11s, and I definitely want my car to be a 122-125mph quarter mile potential car someday, so until the software is perfected, I can't consider it.
2) Inability to work on it myself with friends, or have a local shop work on it. It's highly specialized, so not just anyone can repair it.
3) Cost of replacement. This is a biggie, even in the eyes of SST owners. You fry a clutch on your GSR, break a pin in the box or damage a synchro, repair won't put you in the poorhouse. SST is often a replacement proposition at failure ,and its not cheap in the least.
4) Driver/car interface feel. This is important, but not a measure of going fast.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: Virginia
dude if that guy put something like that on my car and had the ***** to leave his car there OMG it would have been the end of the world... first off his tires would have been a done deal .. second my car would have been some where else... and 3rd as soon as he would come back to his crap sti 2006 i would spit in his face and give him a 2 piece for touching my car and having the nerve to touch it bro .. wow that guy is crazy man jealous ppl.... seems like EVERYONE is always hating on PPL who have a MR.... even my own friends are hating on my MR bro... its all good though!! i love it!! but when it comes to touching my property u better know its coming for u .. VA is has great laws where you have have a concealed weapon on u anytime lol!!
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: NOVA
dude if that guy put something like that on my car and had the ***** to leave his car there OMG it would have been the end of the world... first off his tires would have been a done deal .. second my car would have been some where else... and 3rd as soon as he would come back to his crap sti 2006 i would spit in his face and give him a 2 piece for touching my car and having the nerve to touch it bro .. wow that guy is crazy man jealous ppl.... seems like EVERYONE is always hating on PPL who have a MR.... even my own friends are hating on my MR bro... its all good though!! i love it!! but when it comes to touching my property u better know its coming for u .. VA is has great laws where you have have a concealed weapon on u anytime lol!!
I usually agree with you on tech, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
The thing I loved about the MR I drove was the ability to change gears anytime. In the GSR, certain parts of corners are effected by shifting. The MR is not like that at all, its smoother and much faster than a person can ever be. The thing that is disarming in an SST is that you can hit a very sharp corner at perfect entry and exit at WOT. The car can shift mid exit and there is zero disruption to the chassis. Even if you can shift perfectly smoothly in a manual and not have this issue, the cumulative effect of lightning fast upshifts on a racetrack will really pay a huge dividend in laptimes.
I am not trying to sell you on it at all, because I know you are like me and would not buy an SST. I AM trying to get you to drive one, though, because I think you would appreciate to see how berserk the SST is compared to something outdated like an SMG.
I drove that MR fully expecting (I daresay hoping to) hate it, but I really liked it a lot.
Now there are some reasons I would not buy one, but if all of them but interface feel could be abolished, I'd consider one.
SST deterrents for me:
1) Torque limitations: There are real failures and higher levels. There are very few of these transmissions in the 11s, and I definitely want my car to be a 122-125mph quarter mile potential car someday, so until the software is perfected, I can't consider it.
2) Inability to work on it myself with friends, or have a local shop work on it. It's highly specialized, so not just anyone can repair it.
3) Cost of replacement. This is a biggie, even in the eyes of SST owners. You fry a clutch on your GSR, break a pin in the box or damage a synchro, repair won't put you in the poorhouse. SST is often a replacement proposition at failure ,and its not cheap in the least.
4) Driver/car interface feel. This is important, but not a measure of going fast.
The thing I loved about the MR I drove was the ability to change gears anytime. In the GSR, certain parts of corners are effected by shifting. The MR is not like that at all, its smoother and much faster than a person can ever be. The thing that is disarming in an SST is that you can hit a very sharp corner at perfect entry and exit at WOT. The car can shift mid exit and there is zero disruption to the chassis. Even if you can shift perfectly smoothly in a manual and not have this issue, the cumulative effect of lightning fast upshifts on a racetrack will really pay a huge dividend in laptimes.
I am not trying to sell you on it at all, because I know you are like me and would not buy an SST. I AM trying to get you to drive one, though, because I think you would appreciate to see how berserk the SST is compared to something outdated like an SMG.
I drove that MR fully expecting (I daresay hoping to) hate it, but I really liked it a lot.
Now there are some reasons I would not buy one, but if all of them but interface feel could be abolished, I'd consider one.
SST deterrents for me:
1) Torque limitations: There are real failures and higher levels. There are very few of these transmissions in the 11s, and I definitely want my car to be a 122-125mph quarter mile potential car someday, so until the software is perfected, I can't consider it.
2) Inability to work on it myself with friends, or have a local shop work on it. It's highly specialized, so not just anyone can repair it.
3) Cost of replacement. This is a biggie, even in the eyes of SST owners. You fry a clutch on your GSR, break a pin in the box or damage a synchro, repair won't put you in the poorhouse. SST is often a replacement proposition at failure ,and its not cheap in the least.
4) Driver/car interface feel. This is important, but not a measure of going fast.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
From: Burbank CA
I am one of the few who, after reading about ithe DTC in concept and watching every F1 race for the last 10 years (F1 does not use a “DTC” per se I know, but it's auto shifting manuals are similar in application and behavior), I wanted a DCT over a manual in my next car. After cross shopping various cars I was turned off by the WRX/STI, GSR, Cadi CTS-V, and BMW 135's lack of a DCT option, and the VW/Audi DTC felt like a conventional Auto, I didn’t want (nor could I afford) a GT-R, Porsche or a Ferrari; so I bought a 2010 MR-T and could not be happier with my buying decision.
Since I started this thread drift (sorry about that…sort of) into a 5sp vs DCT debate by responding to one hater I’ve been gratified by the many DCT defenders that have jumped in! It’s as if the MR community has suddenly decided to shout (from the virtual forum window) “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more”!
I no longer feel like a lone voice in the wilderness, it's turned into a healthy rivalry, COOL!
Thanx.
Paul
2010 MR-T (SST)
Stock clutch packs
OEM DiaQueen SST fluid
SSP trans Deep Sump
SSP Front mount trans cooler
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP (cleaned up by Bryan)
Green relay (yeah that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel pump relay!)
Since I started this thread drift (sorry about that…sort of) into a 5sp vs DCT debate by responding to one hater I’ve been gratified by the many DCT defenders that have jumped in! It’s as if the MR community has suddenly decided to shout (from the virtual forum window) “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more”!
I no longer feel like a lone voice in the wilderness, it's turned into a healthy rivalry, COOL! Thanx.
Paul
2010 MR-T (SST)
Stock clutch packs
OEM DiaQueen SST fluid
SSP trans Deep Sump
SSP Front mount trans cooler
OEM intake w/dropin
CBRD BBX full Turbo
AMS DP
RRE Rally test pipe
MXP II CBE
DP 1000 injectors
BlaqOps single pump
WORKS tune using OP (cleaned up by Bryan)
Green relay (yeah that’s it, it MUST be a faulty fuel pump relay!)
Last edited by kmart888; Feb 5, 2011 at 01:24 PM.
Since I started this thread drift (sorry about that…sort of) into a 5sp vs DCT debate by responding to one hater I’ve been gratified by the many DCT defenders that have jumped in! It’s as if the MR community has suddenly decided to shout (from the virtual forum window) “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it any more”! I no longer feel like a lone voice in the wilderness, it's turned into a healthy rivalry, COOL!
I no longer feel like a lone voice in the wilderness, it's turned into a healthy rivalry, COOL!So yah, keep learning, set people straight, and the ones that refuse to listen, ignore them. It's about the time we all band together and start producing specs and all the information we can about the SST.
Evolving Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 244
Likes: 0
From: sweden
I think some of you should think about why your car is named Evolution.
Also, the SC-SST is fantastic imo, and have not decreased my involvement when driving. I feel more in control and able to push my driving further actually.
If the SST would have somewhat held me back (in performance and practicality), then I would not feel in control, but it doesn't.
This is from someone that have only driven stick and had no experience at all of automatics or DSG's before this car.
And the daily comfort in traffic is just priceless.
Maybe some are just annoyed of that someone with a SC-SST might do the job better with less effort, or perhaps they wanted it but were afraid to get it because of the rumours of it failing.
It's really nothing to argue about anyway..
These are just my opinions like everyone elses..
And back on the topic:
I don't like when anyone pokes on my car cause it's my private property.
If I had time, I would have wait for that guy and confront him just to make him feel his action had a consequence.
Also, the SC-SST is fantastic imo, and have not decreased my involvement when driving. I feel more in control and able to push my driving further actually.
If the SST would have somewhat held me back (in performance and practicality), then I would not feel in control, but it doesn't.
This is from someone that have only driven stick and had no experience at all of automatics or DSG's before this car.
And the daily comfort in traffic is just priceless.
Maybe some are just annoyed of that someone with a SC-SST might do the job better with less effort, or perhaps they wanted it but were afraid to get it because of the rumours of it failing.
It's really nothing to argue about anyway..
These are just my opinions like everyone elses..
And back on the topic:
I don't like when anyone pokes on my car cause it's my private property.
If I had time, I would have wait for that guy and confront him just to make him feel his action had a consequence.
Last edited by gloom; Feb 6, 2011 at 06:28 PM.
