Greetings all
I know there are a ton of threads regarding the wing vs wingless debate. Most of them deteriorate into opinions about looks, image, or street credibility.

I would really like to hear from people who race and or track a Evo X without a wing.

I know from searching there is an opinion out there that the wing makes a difference at 70-90mph and 130-150mph. Is this really true?

And aside from the Mitsubishi PDF is there any other tech data to support using a wing rather than some other form of aero?

Also, Ive read from searching that a good lip or splitter may solve any handling issues from running wingless? Is this true?

Ive noticed a lot of other high performace cars run without a rear spoiler ie M3, ISF, CST-V. How do they accomplish this if a rear spoiler is so important to handling.

Personaly, Im not into image at all (though performance usualy causes a good looking car). Im purley about function, performance, and speed.

Please, I would like to avoid the asthetics debate. Im looking just for handling and performce experience or tech data.
Thanks

 

it makes a difference, a big one. The cars you list w/o wings, don't have them because most 50 year old guys won't buy a car with a wing. They are worse off for it.

 

Do you have any data to support that?

I know that a wing is functional. Hence almost all race cars have them. I have seen that the dedicated Evo X race cars have much bigger wings than the OEM piece.

Having said that, are there corrections or other changes than can be made to the car for performance handling ie duckbill trunk lid or splitter?

Do these add ons work?

PS I know 50+ year old guys that base jump, hang glide, and work in SOF doing things most men, no matter what age, wouldnt have the ***** to do.

 

staying on target here, yes, a "functional" wing will make all the differance in the world at higher speeds by adding additional downforce to the rear of the car.

straying off target, it really depends on the 50 year old man, my dad is 58 and did on/off ramps at 80+ in his M5 before he sold it. Given, it didnt have a wing, but he wouldnt be opposed to having a car with one of it, as long as it was practical.

 

There's obviously exceptions. but those aren't niche cars, they're luxury sedans with big power that are fast. They must appeal to everyone, and many many older people don't want the attention a wing provides. Wings are for racing, and they make your car better. Someone has a post on here where they tracked w/ and without the wing, and said they could feel the difference immediately

 

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtest...hing.html#more

its a proven fact that wings work. whether or not you need the advantages vs the "disadvantages" is all up to you. other cars may not need wings because they use other ways to get downforce or minimize lift.

 

What kind of data are you looking for? Are you looking for wind tunnel data, such as streamlines and pressure gradients?

 

Zing!!! The cars you listed come from luxury car dealers. Most people who can afford these cars are not interested in downforce created by these spoilers. People with dedicated track cars almost always put a shopping cart wing on the back of the car. It makes a difference.

 

Thats a generous offer thanks. But realizing I might not have worded my request well, no...I dont really need that kind of data.

I know that wings work or race cars wouldnt have them (as I mentioned before).

What I would like is more than butt data ie "I felt a big difference."

There are cars that perform well without wings. The CTS-V set a record on the Ring for a sedan. And it didnt use a wing. Would it have made a difference? Im sure, but how much?

And as for the M3 being a luxury sedan, Ive read for years that it was a true drivers car in many different publications. Not just from old men.

That aside, is there really a huge difference in performace with or without a wing? Or is it mainly "feel."

The wings I see on Evo X race cars are HUGE. Not the OEM ones. And Im sure they make a difference.

But with the OEM wing are there skidpad differences? Lap times that are different (same car and driver etc)?

And if so can they be offset with a front splitter or suspension? Duckbill trunk lid? Or?

Thanks for the replies everyone, I really do appreciate them!

 

When the Z32 came out (90 300ZX) the engineers wanted it to go intro production without a wing (due to better performance. They lost because people like spoilers.

 

This is very interesting.

But they also mention that they lowered tire pressures 2psi for the fast lap (which they also used a wing).

It made 1/10 of a second difference-
Thanks

 

here you go, an example of the wind testing done on the older evo. I would assume that they took the same type of time to test the X as well.

 

People who buy a nissan 300zx do, yes. As do people who buy a mitsu evo. People who buy a status symbol such as the M3, CTS-V, E63 AMG, etc buy them because they want a fast 'cool' car, which is also a status symbol. 50 year olds for the most part want a quiet, comfortable car. They also want a fast car due to mid-life crysis and other factors :-). In the end, a wing looks boy-racer, which is the opposite of what those brands are going for.

or maybe the m3 gts, cts-v race car, MB racers etc all have giant wings on them just because other race cars do and they want to fit in?

 

The wing on the EVO makes a HUGE difference. I took the wing off for a day on my on my IX MR, and I could immediately feel the difference even at highway speeds. I've also noticed that my X SE is not nearly as stable on the highway with just it's little lip spoiler. it gets shaky at triple digit speeds with or without crosswinds, but especially bad when the wind is blowing. seriously considering going with an OEM wing.

 

from my experience with AutoX, i havent noticed a huge difference without the wing. im sure the absence of any reverse lift object on the rear, there will be a difference at high speeds.