how to get 450-500whp on pump 93
Im kind of surprised all of you guys are saying do the Black. Im doing the Red on 93+meth and my goals are 450-490whp on a mustang dyno, or 500-530whp on a dynojet and I plan on running it around 30ish psi. The Red will spool a lot quicker than a Black will too, and Im like you, I plan on doing a stroker within a year or so, at that time I plan on sending the Red to be converted to a Black when I know I have a block that'll be able to handle the torque the black produces.
Anyone reputable that Ive asked, including FP, said doing a Black on the stock block will be a ticking time bomb if you plan on pushing it. If you dont push it, youll be safe...but at that point, why buy the Black and have the lag when you could get a Red, push it a little harder, and make more power and more usable power than you would if you did the black??
As for cams, I went nuts trying to decide on cams, but you have an VIII, I have a IX. I ended up deciding on GSC S2's, but it was between those, FP4R's and Kelford 272's. Theres plenty of guys running the Kelfords making nasty power and grabbing nasty times.
Anyone reputable that Ive asked, including FP, said doing a Black on the stock block will be a ticking time bomb if you plan on pushing it. If you dont push it, youll be safe...but at that point, why buy the Black and have the lag when you could get a Red, push it a little harder, and make more power and more usable power than you would if you did the black??
As for cams, I went nuts trying to decide on cams, but you have an VIII, I have a IX. I ended up deciding on GSC S2's, but it was between those, FP4R's and Kelford 272's. Theres plenty of guys running the Kelfords making nasty power and grabbing nasty times.
Im kind of surprised all of you guys are saying do the Black. Im doing the Red on 93+meth and my goals are 450-490whp on a mustang dyno, or 500-530whp on a dynojet and I plan on running it around 30ish psi. The Red will spool a lot quicker than a Black will too, and Im like you, I plan on doing a stroker within a year or so, at that time I plan on sending the Red to be converted to a Black when I know I have a block that'll be able to handle the torque the black produces.
Anyone reputable that Ive asked, including FP, said doing a Black on the stock block will be a ticking time bomb if you plan on pushing it. If you dont push it, youll be safe...but at that point, why buy the Black and have the lag when you could get a Red, push it a little harder, and make more power and more usable power than you would if you did the black??
As for cams, I went nuts trying to decide on cams, but you have an VIII, I have a IX. I ended up deciding on GSC S2's, but it was between those, FP4R's and Kelford 272's. Theres plenty of guys running the Kelfords making nasty power and grabbing nasty times.
Anyone reputable that Ive asked, including FP, said doing a Black on the stock block will be a ticking time bomb if you plan on pushing it. If you dont push it, youll be safe...but at that point, why buy the Black and have the lag when you could get a Red, push it a little harder, and make more power and more usable power than you would if you did the black??
As for cams, I went nuts trying to decide on cams, but you have an VIII, I have a IX. I ended up deciding on GSC S2's, but it was between those, FP4R's and Kelford 272's. Theres plenty of guys running the Kelfords making nasty power and grabbing nasty times.
If the need price is the same, mit as well go big or go home.....just dont push it as hard
I like this forum even more because I like the feedback coming in lol 
It gives me more confidence in deciding on which way to take my upgrades. I already decided on the BBK full. I just need to do more research on what else I would need to achieve around 400 WHP and x] (still new to it all). thanks for the info Svendiesel.
Oh ya forgot to mention. Rev limits on the motor... How often does anyone rev over 7000? Or am I missing something.. I've researched some articles and I see them bump up their rev to 7800 etc.. Isn't that abuse on the engine or is it because of their aftermarket components they can beat on it more?
It gives me more confidence in deciding on which way to take my upgrades. I already decided on the BBK full. I just need to do more research on what else I would need to achieve around 400 WHP and x] (still new to it all). thanks for the info Svendiesel. Oh ya forgot to mention. Rev limits on the motor... How often does anyone rev over 7000? Or am I missing something.. I've researched some articles and I see them bump up their rev to 7800 etc.. Isn't that abuse on the engine or is it because of their aftermarket components they can beat on it more?
I like this forum even more because I like the feedback coming in lol It gives me more confidence in deciding on which way to take my upgrades. I already decided on the BBK full. I just need to do more research on what else I would need to achieve around 400 WHP and x] (still new to it all). thanks for the info Svendiesel.
Oh ya forgot to mention. Rev limits on the motor... How often does anyone rev over 7000? Or am I missing something.. I've researched some articles and I see them bump up their rev to 7800 etc.. Isn't that abuse on the engine or is it because of their aftermarket components they can beat on it more?
It gives me more confidence in deciding on which way to take my upgrades. I already decided on the BBK full. I just need to do more research on what else I would need to achieve around 400 WHP and x] (still new to it all). thanks for the info Svendiesel. Oh ya forgot to mention. Rev limits on the motor... How often does anyone rev over 7000? Or am I missing something.. I've researched some articles and I see them bump up their rev to 7800 etc.. Isn't that abuse on the engine or is it because of their aftermarket components they can beat on it more?
I see. so overall how things work on motor 101 is...?
Baby = low RPM good setup, tuned, everything proper will equal a long term daily driver with less likely engine problems?
While High rev HP powered engines with daily driving, tuned good set up etc. More likely to have something happen.
or am i wrong lol
It would be because of the work load that engines die right.. I can understand if someone is beating the ***** out of their ride that it will happen. But even if it in tip top shape? I was reading the thread about how some of the members evo's engine died, what condition it was in, psi used, etc.
In the end I guess I am just worrying too much lol.
So aftermarket internals and a better build of the motor = stronger revvs etc. and reliability?
I see. so overall how things work on motor 101 is...?
Baby = low RPM good setup, tuned, everything proper will equal a long term daily driver with less likely engine problems?
While High rev HP powered engines with daily driving, tuned good set up etc. More likely to have something happen.
or am i wrong lol
It would be because of the work load that engines die right.. I can understand if someone is beating the ***** out of their ride that it will happen. But even if it in tip top shape? I was reading the thread about how some of the members evo's engine died, what condition it was in, psi used, etc.
In the end I guess I am just worrying too much lol.
I see. so overall how things work on motor 101 is...?
Baby = low RPM good setup, tuned, everything proper will equal a long term daily driver with less likely engine problems?
While High rev HP powered engines with daily driving, tuned good set up etc. More likely to have something happen.
or am i wrong lol
It would be because of the work load that engines die right.. I can understand if someone is beating the ***** out of their ride that it will happen. But even if it in tip top shape? I was reading the thread about how some of the members evo's engine died, what condition it was in, psi used, etc.
In the end I guess I am just worrying too much lol.
Stay under 7300 on stock block/head and you'll be fine. Anything can fail at anytime no matter if it's stock or modified. If you worry about it, then this isn't the car for you.
There have been many threads regarding the "lag" and it's around a couple hundred (2-300rpms) difference in spool up. Hardly worth mentioning. Not to mention the Black will put out higher #s than the Red, therefore you'd have to push your RED harder than an Black to match up #s. So the Red would be more of a ticking time bomb since you have to push it further to match #s.
And no it is not only a few hundred RPM, from what Ive gathered, Reds spool at around 3800-4000, the Black's spool around 5,000+, one guys sheet I just saw on the stock block, he had full boost at 5200rpm. Thats a big difference.
Stock block with a Red = 450whp no problem, spool at 3800. Stock block with a Black = 450whp also no problem, spool at 5000. Thats a no brainer to me, which is why Im getting my Red and have it to upgrade to the black in the future.
Last edited by Svendiesel; Apr 27, 2010 at 02:28 PM.
The point is you really cant push the Black on the stock block if you want to keep it around for a while, the Red you can and you can make more power safer with a Red on the stock block period.
And no it is not only a few hundred RPM, from what Ive gathered, Reds spool at around 3800-4000, the Black's spool in around 5,000+. Thats a big difference. Stock block Red = 450whp no problem, spool at 3900. Stock block Black = 450whp no problem, spool at 5000. Thats a no brainer to me.
And no it is not only a few hundred RPM, from what Ive gathered, Reds spool at around 3800-4000, the Black's spool in around 5,000+. Thats a big difference. Stock block Red = 450whp no problem, spool at 3900. Stock block Black = 450whp no problem, spool at 5000. Thats a no brainer to me.
You also forgot that you can do 450whp with less boost, so I'm not sure how you think more boost on a Red to achieve similar results on a Black is somehow SAFER?
*Edit* I see you say in you info that you have 400whp/400tq @30psi? Curious on your setup. I'm achieving 400whp @ 26.5psi on my Black.
Last edited by metalsaber; Apr 27, 2010 at 02:32 PM.
You said youre only making 400whp on the Black, so Im going to take a stab and say that youre running around 25psi?? How much boost do you run?
Heres one members chart from his FP Black at 34psi.
He has 30psi at around 4600, so thats not terrible. But still, his max boost of 34psi is just after at 5200rpm.
Im stock IX turbo, Buschur 3.5in fmic with pipes, alcohol injection, Buschur intake and Buschur 3" catless tbe, Forge RS bov (made a huge difference holding all the boost in over the oem dv) HKS 272's, ARP headstuds, walbro 255, and thats all. it wouldnt be 400whp on a mustang dyno I promise that
Heres one members chart from his FP Black at 34psi.
He has 30psi at around 4600, so thats not terrible. But still, his max boost of 34psi is just after at 5200rpm.
Im stock IX turbo, Buschur 3.5in fmic with pipes, alcohol injection, Buschur intake and Buschur 3" catless tbe, Forge RS bov (made a huge difference holding all the boost in over the oem dv) HKS 272's, ARP headstuds, walbro 255, and thats all. it wouldnt be 400whp on a mustang dyno I promise that
I had edited my post above and it was 26.5 psi. Plus still running a high flow cat. I certainly could make more power by removing cat and adding more boost, but being an MR, I'm sticking with 400ish whp on a Mustang.
Last edited by metalsaber; Apr 27, 2010 at 02:51 PM.
might as well get a black first. getting a red just to upgrade is stupid. you forget about down time for your car and paying another fee for installation if your not doing it yourself. the black will not work as hard to get what you need and will produce less tq as well in the process. dont be fooled if you want 700 later then the black or 35r are your turbos no point in double paying and more down time. btw the lag between red and black again is 200rpms that is not enough to even be a concern to worry about. so quit worrying about spool time. once you go 2.3 then its all a wash.