If Ralliart didn't test the FQ400 on a oval or any track for a extended period of time at over 175 mph. How else will they know the intercooler hose won't pop loose, the front lips won't tear right out of the bumper, the engine won't blow apart, or the car won't flip over foward like those MBZ LeMans cars. The FQ400 was tested for highspeed stability and reliability.

Yes, I know Nurburing is not an oval, MR was tested there for handling improvement over the standard evo8.

 

Okay, you said your car has 50% more power than stock and everyelse remains the same? Don't kid yourself, it is not true. May I ask what is your mpg? Can you pass smog? Where is the warranty if something break, is Visnu gonna fix it for you? What if cop pull you over, you gonna get a fix it ticket?

Aren't you contradicting yourself, you said your car has 50% more power and said your car retained stock reliability. But now you said you don't know how well the FQ holds up even though they did all the testing with help from all those real "experts".

I am not hung up on the 24/7 testing, but this tells me Ralliart have high standards on their product. Not just bring a mod car on the race track for magazine review, then a hose keep popping loose. That is both unprofessional and lame beyond excuse.

Do you have any idea how much it cost to rent Nurburing for aday? I don't either, but i know it cost around $35,000 plus aday to rent California speedway in Fontana. And I am sure it cost alot more to rent Nurburing than CA speedway. So do you think its justifiable to rent Nurburing to test a FQ400 that will only sell 100 copy? And plus Nurburing is in Germany, and Ralliart is in UK. So what is the cost to bring all the staff over to run the car there?

 

I don't disagree with these remarks, and I wonder how this refutes anything I've said. My point was that tuners can achieve performance results that are equal or better than what OEMs are willing to do with factory-tuned versions. Tuners don't do that without testing, and while testing might not be done on a 2-mile oval or at the Nurburgring (that's how it's spelled), those specific tracks aren't necessary to achieve high performance.

 

I think Ralliart and Mitsu have got the right Idea, not eveyone wants to tear up their vehicle to install parts, you then have to worry about something going wrong because of an incorrectly adjusted part and so on, atleast with ralliart doing all that testing for reliability etc, there is some peace of mind knowing that if anything goes wrong, that it is possibly covered under a warranty, and it just goes to show that they do their homework.
Yeah you can run new parts on a dyno etc but you still don't have the correct airflow (aerodynamics) testing, like you do with a real world driving test, hence the updated Bilstein shocks, developed from testing in germany and the Vortex Generators and so on.

I heard of some guys on another thread removing the lower Airdam cowling to try and improve cooling in the engine bay when at a traffic lights, I guess they don't know that heat rises, that is part of the reason why there is a Hood vent, but that component although maybe a pain in the *** to remove, just to get at stuff underneath does has a function for the vehicle, not only does it help with cooling when the vehicle is moving it also assists with front end down force.
That was developed from Aerodynamic testing.
as I said to those guys about underhood temperatures, they need to get some Turbo wrap and exhaust wrap, helps keep the temperatures in the exhaust system
Check with Dan @ Machv.com I noticed he had some advertised for sale.

What guarantee's do you have with after market tuners, Absolutely nothing, something goes wrong they will be quick enough saying that their parts or workmanship didn't cause the damage and then where do you stand, You stand out of pocket, after just shelling out a huge chunk for the after market parts and labor and even more money then, cause you might have to rebuild the head or what ever is damaged.
So the inconvienience to me alone just isn't worth the hassle.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, please take in to consideration other peoples Ideas and points of view, that is after all how Humans learn, through trial and error, but if it can be done at the expense of someone else (Ralliart) then expect to pay a little something for that Knowledge, the experience, and professionalism.
I 'm out

 

Whatever. We'd all buy them if we could. We can't... Soo we modify our evo8's. It sounds like Mitsu outsourced most of the deveolopment to "tuners" anyway.

More importantly does anyone know which "prototype garret bb turbo" was used? 3071/37/35?

 

The FQ series Evos use a bunch of HKS parts. HKS Drager exhaust, RS intake kit, etc. The FQ cars are basically stock Evo's modded by the Ralliart UK for resale with a factory warranty. That's all there is to it. It's not like it uses any super special parts or super special testing. I'm sure the MR was tested on the Nurburgring, but the FQ-400 is a UK only product and Mitsu of Japan has nothing to do with the FQ series cars.

 

1. MPG have gone UP, thank you very much
2. I don't need to pass smog, but I'm sure I could if I had to (it's been done in Cali, so I'm sure good ole IL would be no problem)
3. I don't care about my warranty. I knew from day 1 that would never honor warranty issues outside of very basic things.
4. Why on earth would I get a fix it ticket? FWIW, I work p/t at a PD and I've read the IL vehicle code, so no worries there. And besides, you wouldn't know my car was modded unless I go WOT.
5. Yes, Vishnu (and other tuners) have warranties on their parts (obviously not the labor, since the install is usually done elsewhere)

I don't see how I am contradicting myself. I am curious to see how the FQ holds up under RACE conditions, it is one thing to build a streetable car, it is quite another to build a car that holds up race after race, which, btw, is exactly what the Vishnu and RRE and other US tuned Evos have done, and the FQ has yet to do...

If you actually did your homework, you'd realize that the IC hose that kept popping off, only came off under a specific high-g load on the C&D track and it was due to a bad hose. When I hear that a car has been tested 24/7 on an oval all it says to me is that I can drive it at that speed for that amount of time. It tells me absolutely nothing about chassis stability, and repeated and varying stresses put on the car (such as would be found on a test track that turns right and left, for example).

I could care less what the Nurburgring costs ... I was just trying to illustrate the shortcomings of oval testing. Ovals generally only test one thing ... durability at high speed. They don't put nearly enough stress on the car overall. I guess it's great if you're planning on running the car on the Autobahn (yes, I know that's in Germany, not UK), but doesn't do much for the local twisties. IMO if they had run the FQ-400 around an autox course for 24 hours, I'd have been more impressed.

l8r)

 

We're going to run an MR in a 25hr endurance race. And guess what? We're going to upgrade it in many areas since it's almost certain that a few standard components are up to the task. Call it cost cutting. Call it accounting for the least common denominator. Call it whatever you want. But don't expect that just because it comes from the factory that it is built with no compromises or weaknesses. It's designed very well to a certain price point. And with this comes compromise.

And yes, we had an intercooler hose come off. And yes, we had a tranny with a twisted mainshaft. But keep in mind this car has ~500hp and has withstood One Lap of America, 3 mag tests and lots of track time. I'm not so certain a factory/Ralliart-offered car would have escaped such a long term torture test unscathed.

Just my 2c,
shiv

 

I agree, it was very frustrating. I was the driver who had to stand around while the hose was being reattached, only to blow off again. All the promise in the world but no chance to prove it

Why did it happen? Because it was a brand new turbo configuration that had never been tested it was on the shop car not a customers car. The event was a test for us and we learned about the hose, about aerodynamic tweaks, engine response with the 35r etc.etc.

In a perfect world we would have had time to do some serious track testing with this configuration before hand but the deadline was too close so we had to take it there untested. We still did pretty well; remember we only did one run and still finished 2nd in class. We should have won our class and finished 3rd or 4th OVERALL. Next time

One-Lap is a good example of how we tested before hand (using OTC) and had a great result directly because of the testing. The only place we had a problem on the event was the wet skid-pad (where you guessed it...we didn't have a chance to test before the event!).

This is why Vishnu gets criticized by people for being slow to release product. Nothing comes out till it's ready and yes you will see stuff fail or radically change from time to time on the shop car as we work through these new developments. All in the quest for the best ALL AROUND cars out there.

The cars are developed to be complete cars that will do everything well. I absolutely agree that we don't have the testing budget of a manufacture but that does not mean our parts are any less developed it just takes longer to wrack up the miles on each mod.

You can BTW pass emissions (most places) get better gas mileage (not pig rich like stock) and have a smoother running car (no knock activity) with a stage 1+ car that runs 12 flat quarters. Put on the Ohlins upgrade the rotors/pads and bye bye FQ 400 around the ring (and I would LOVE to prove it )

I agree with your points whole heartedly, just wanted to point out that when you see or hear of the shop car doing well (usually) or breaking (it's how you learn) that it means we ARE testing so customer cars get only developed packages. The event results and customer satisfaction prove it

 

1. MPG have gone UP, thank you very much

Yes, when you are running the car at below 2500 rpm the whole time right?

2. I don't need to pass smog, but I'm sure I could if I had to (it's been done in Cali, so I'm sure good ole IL would be no problem)

Forget it, you don't even have a chance to pass visual inspection in CA. One of my buddy is a smog technician, first thing he does is to fail any car that he see mod on it. He is not @$$holes, he just didn't want to risk his license being revoked. There is alot sting operation out there catching smog station. FYI, please visit : http://www.smogtips.com/frequentlyas...SmogCheckFail1

Here is a direct quote:
We hate to admit it but unfortunately most of the aftermarket performance products that you run across are NOT authorized for California street use, and will definitely posse an emissions threat. If you want to enhance your vehicle's performance but don't want to fail the smog test, read the fine print on some of the products out there. You're going to want to find a product which has an Executive Order number. EO numbers are given only to performance products which the State of California has inspected and approved for street use. Performance Products with EO numbers can pass the smog test. Most manufactures of these products will stamp the EO number on their product. In some cases EO Numbered decals are provided with the component and required to be placed under the vehicle's hood. At any rate, the smog station which will be inspecting your vehicle must have the EO number readily available, either via a decal, stamp or the specific component's manual. Your vehicle will fail the smog test if you are not able to provide EO numbers for you performance products.

3. I don't care about my warranty. I knew from day 1 that would never honor warranty issues outside of very basic things.

How did you know that? Get real, you know for certain that Mitsubishi will deny 100% of the warranty claim submitted? One thing I am sure though is if you modify your car, you will loose your warranty.

4. Why on earth would I get a fix it ticket? FWIW, I work p/t at a PD and I've read the IL vehicle code, so no worries there. And besides, you wouldn't know my car was modded unless I go WOT.

So Cal is way different than IL. City cops will pull ricer over for just having sticker on the windshield. You probably heard people got ticketed for stock evo wing.One of my friend has a 94 Civic hatchback, he got a pep boy street legal performance exhaust, various @nal cops gave him fix it ticket for no less than 3 times in a month. CA cops will love to issue ticket first and ask you to fight it later. All performance parts in used in CA must have the EO number on it.

"Exempted parts are add-on or modified parts that have undergone an ARB engineering evaluation. If the part or modification is shown to not increase vehicle emissions, it is granted an exemption to emission control system anti-tampering laws. This exemption is called an Executive Order (EO) and allows the modification to be installed on specific emission controlled vehicles. Every Executive Order part or modification has an assigned number that can be verified by Smog Check stations, BAR Referee stations, or by the ARB."

Here is the link: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php

5. Yes, Vishnu (and other tuners) have warranties on their parts (obviously not the labor, since the install is usually done elsewhere)

Look, after market parts won't break themselves, but it leads to the failure of stock parts. So you put a 500hp big turbo kit in your car and it mess up the transmission. Who's is gonna pay for the transmission? Do you think the turbo will melt?

6. I don't see how I am contradicting myself. I am curious to see how the FQ holds up under RACE conditions, it is one thing to build a streetable car, it is quite another to build a car that holds up race after race, which, btw, is exactly what the Vishnu and RRE and other US tuned Evos have done, and the FQ has yet to do...

The FQ is not designed to be a race car, its a special edition world fastest sedan to celebrate ralliart/mitsubishi 30 years anniversay in UK. Get real, you think someone is buying the FQ400 for club sport event? The RS is for race, not the FQ. The FQ is too nice and complete to be used as racing vehicle.


7. If you actually did your homework, you'd realize that the IC hose that kept popping off, only came off under a specific high-g load on the C&D track and it was due to a bad hose. When I hear that a car has been tested 24/7 on an oval all it says to me is that I can drive it at that speed for that amount of time. It tells me absolutely nothing about chassis stability, and repeated and varying stresses put on the car (such as would be found on a test track that turns right and left, for example).

You are very confused here, the point here is not why the hose came off, the fact was it kept popping off so the car is NOT RUNNING right. And that event was called SUPERCAR CHALLENGE, not vishnu testing session, so the car should be ready to take on other car and perform right. If it didn't perform, it lost. No if, or ,but. Nobody should care why Max Biaggi always finish behind Rossi in Motogp championship. He like to ***** and moan and find very good viable excuses for every race he lost. But you know what everybody laugh at him and knows he is not good enough thats why he lost.
Yes, I agree testing on on oval for 24/7 is not the best way to test every aspect of the car. Ralliart "should" take the FQ400 to every F1 tracks on the planet and test for 3 years. But you know what, given the amount of funding they have, I highly respect what they have done already. Remember, there is only 100 FQ, so there is not much money there. At least its millon times better than some shop trying to test their car on a magazine shoot out test. Its funny how you accept some shop doing no extensive track test while you are complaining how Ralliart test so extensively for 2200 miles aday.


8. I could care less what the Nurburgring costs ... I was just trying to illustrate the shortcomings of oval testing. Ovals generally only test one thing ... durability at high speed. They don't put nearly enough stress on the car overall. I guess it's great if you're planning on running the car on the Autobahn (yes, I know that's in Germany, not UK), but doesn't do much for the local twisties. IMO if they had run the FQ-400 around an autox course for 24 hours, I'd have been more impressed.

Do you have any idea why the FQ400 is created. FYI, its created to celebrate the 30 years anniversary. Second, be the craziest FASTEST production sedan in the world while being durable with factory warranty. Third, exclusivity with very limited production. So it make alot of sense to test it on oval because their priority is speed and durability with limited budget. If they listen to your suggestion, they are worst than brainless, why test a 0-60mph in 3.6 seconds car with 175 mph top speed on a less than 50 mph no more than 3rd gear autox course?????? Do you test a battleship on the Colorado River?

 

Please look at Jbigelow's earlier post, its alot more than just bunch of HKS parts. But lets say its just bunch of parts. If its not for the Ralliart's effort, how on earth do you know it will be a winning formula? That's call knowledge learned through trial and error. Why does Microsoft sells Window XP for $200? Can you say thats a rip off so you buy a 10 cents cdrom and make yourself a pirate copy?

When you pay a landscaper $10,000 to do your backyard, you can't say to him/her that they are only using mud/rock/grass/plants/pebbles that cost only $500 at homedepot. Why overcharging you for $9,500? You are paying for the person/company talent and effort.

 

The only thing RalliArt did that any tuner might not be able to replicate exactly is engine management. Installing parts is not rocket science... and they're all widely available parts, at that. I'm not hating on the car, I do like it, I just don't think it's as "omfg" as everybody makes it out to be.

 

Don't have time to read all the responses, but just to cover myself on my last post, I know that the FQ-400 isn't technically "stock." Yes, they are shipped into the UK as regular MR's and then converted to FQ-400 Spec. What I meant was factory-backed, if you want to be technical. Either way it means coming off the showroom floor like that, not modding it yourself.

 

Yes, exactly like what you said, "replicating" is the easy part. Anyone can make a copy of Windows xp in 5 mins without knowing a thing in computer programming. But how much time did it took Microsoft to create windows xp in the first place? Who said its hard to copy someone's else hard work or idea.
Unskilled concentration inmates were building/assembling V2 rocket at Peenemunde. Yes, you are right, installing parts is not rocket science. Rocket Scientist is Wernher Von Braun, and he has never install a parts on his rocket.

The "omfg" part is Mitsubishi has built the fastest production sedan in the world. I like the FQ, will never want to buy one, and the fact that BMW can no longer claims their V10 500hp M5 as the fastest 4 door sedan, priceless.

 

love the car but only england will build it cause they love their rally cars. but i do want the tails.