Here's the MOTOR TREND article (56k beware)
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From: NY
Originally Posted by EVO Neil
I think that, at best, an '05 GSR would be lucky to get within a second of the MR. The MR has a lower center of gravity thanks to the aluminum roof and those Bilsteins do a much better job of keeping the tires in contact with the pavement. Then there's the six speed-which which does a better job of keeping the new turbo on the whistle. I'd have to say the ACD has less to do with the number difference than any other new component simply because we ran it in tarmac mode which should have been similar to an Evo without ACD, according to my logic meter. My meter could be off, but we had good weather the day we tested and no need to select another mode. Chris had done so in the wet at the press launch and noticed the difference, but we were dry, hot and grippy on our test day.
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From: Birmingham, AL
You sound like a typical whiny Subie fanboy.
I guess there's no other 235 tire that's DOT approved for Subaru to get. You can make excuses about what could have been, the rest of us have only to deal with what the facts in front of us have presented. Markups don't count when talking MSRP, stop clouding the issue. Once we see a test of the GSR versus the STi, I wonder what excuses you'll come up with then.
I guess there's no other 235 tire that's DOT approved for Subaru to get. You can make excuses about what could have been, the rest of us have only to deal with what the facts in front of us have presented. Markups don't count when talking MSRP, stop clouding the issue. Once we see a test of the GSR versus the STi, I wonder what excuses you'll come up with then.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Midwest
Originally Posted by godai
You sound like you're on your PMS. No one said having MR wheels/tires on STi would make it beat the MR, it was just said to make it more even. Like I said JDM STi already has 235 tires, but they're not yet DOT approved for here.
MR will certainly cost more than the STi if not simply by limited quantities and markups. Mitsu's advertised warranty and actual is pretty funny topic too, I hope they're even in business in 10 years. STi cost more than EVOs before is well deserved being more equipped. MR is not better equipped than STi but cost more.
MR will certainly cost more than the STi if not simply by limited quantities and markups. Mitsu's advertised warranty and actual is pretty funny topic too, I hope they're even in business in 10 years. STi cost more than EVOs before is well deserved being more equipped. MR is not better equipped than STi but cost more.
Please, tell me how the MR is not better equipped than the STI. The MR is a limited production model that is loaded standard with most of the options available for the GSR. The 05 STI is a revised base model that you very well could make up the price difference with options. You even have to pay extra for a good shifter feel in the STI! And despite what colors they are the seats still suck.
Either you want an MR or an STI. If you wanted an Evo before this test and have driven one, you'll probably still want one now.
Evo= Ultra Responsive, Need to pay attention to the road at all times, extremely rewarding.
STI= A little less responsive steering, but still very fast, maybe a little easier to drive but with lower limits.
As far as I can tell, this is how it's been for a while. Now both are faster and the STI doesn't have the advantge of straight line speed or ride quality.
So. If you don't want an Evo now, but wanted one before this, chances are you'll probably change your mind once you get in one again.
Last edited by The Bear; Sep 3, 2004 at 08:08 AM.
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Originally Posted by GPTourer
You sound like a typical whiny Subie fanboy.
I guess there's no other 235 tire that's DOT approved for Subaru to get. You can make excuses about what could have been, the rest of us have only to deal with what the facts in front of us have presented. Markups don't count when talking MSRP, stop clouding the issue. Once we see a test of the GSR versus the STi, I wonder what excuses you'll come up with then.
I guess there's no other 235 tire that's DOT approved for Subaru to get. You can make excuses about what could have been, the rest of us have only to deal with what the facts in front of us have presented. Markups don't count when talking MSRP, stop clouding the issue. Once we see a test of the GSR versus the STi, I wonder what excuses you'll come up with then.
It's pretty known that the EVOs are faster out of the box on track than STis. But that doesn't make it a better overall car for most. If this is your race only car, by all means choose the EVO but possibly the GSR and not MR.
You want the fact? Read this first published article - 34.9k est for MR.
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Originally Posted by The Bear
Please, tell me how the MR is not better equipped than the STI. The MR is a limited production model that is loaded standard with most of the options available for the GSR. The 05 STI is a revised base model that you very well could make up the price difference with options. You even have to pay extra for a good shifter feel in the STI! And despite what colors they are the seats still suck.
Last edited by godai; Sep 3, 2004 at 09:20 AM.
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From: Midwest
Originally Posted by godai
I thought I already did? climate control, cruise control, shift light, IC water spray, immobilizer, etc
I think evos have always come with immobilizers.
If you honestly think those make it better equipped than the MR, then I'll just have to say it must be subjective. I think you're very wrong though.
If you want an STI more now then you probably would have never really been happy with an Evo.
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From: Birmingham, AL
Originally Posted by godai
umm like they would just change out manufacture deal all of a sudden and switch out the RE70s just for stupid american DOT. Besides they're probably happy to get rid of the 225 stocks. The USDM EVOs have more to whine still not getting full spec with AYC.
It's pretty known that the EVOs are faster out of the box on track than STis. But that doesn't make it a better overall car for most. If this is your race only car, by all means choose the EVO but possibly the GSR and not MR.
You want the fact? Read this first published article - 34.9k est for MR.
It's pretty known that the EVOs are faster out of the box on track than STis. But that doesn't make it a better overall car for most. If this is your race only car, by all means choose the EVO but possibly the GSR and not MR.
You want the fact? Read this first published article - 34.9k est for MR.
All I've heard is people whine about what the MR has and doesn't have on this forum and that the almighty new and imporved '05 STi was going to crush it. But that didn't happen. I have just as much right to say "I told you so." as all the people had the right to say the MR was going to suck because we were supposedly getting a weak sauce "USDM MR edition."
Estimates, whatever. I'll wait till I hear it from Mitsu. Even if it is more pricey, there will still be plenty of people lined up to get it. Even if they cost the same, you would still be a Subie fan so why are you so hung up price?
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: St. Paul, MN
Originally Posted by twan
Well looks like we need an MR now to keep up with the STI (stock for stock).
Kinda sad. Id still like to see an 05gsr versus an 05MR test.
While some of us are contemplating the MR versus the STI, there are also a ton of us trying to rationalize the cost between the gsr/mr. For those people...........there are still hangups.
Kinda sad. Id still like to see an 05gsr versus an 05MR test.
While some of us are contemplating the MR versus the STI, there are also a ton of us trying to rationalize the cost between the gsr/mr. For those people...........there are still hangups.
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Originally Posted by GPTourer
WHAT? It's a "stupid American DOT" on the Evo that you are saying would make the test "more even" if they swapped them.
All I've heard is people whine about what the MR has and doesn't have on this forum and that the almighty new and imporved '05 STi was going to crush it. But that didn't happen. I have just as much right to say "I told you so." as all the people had the right to say the MR was going to suck because we were supposedly getting a weak sauce "USDM MR edition."
Estimates, whatever. I'll wait till I hear it from Mitsu. Even if it is more pricey, there will still be plenty of people lined up to get it. Even if they cost the same, you would still be a Subie fan so why are you so hung up price?
All I've heard is people whine about what the MR has and doesn't have on this forum and that the almighty new and imporved '05 STi was going to crush it. But that didn't happen. I have just as much right to say "I told you so." as all the people had the right to say the MR was going to suck because we were supposedly getting a weak sauce "USDM MR edition."
Estimates, whatever. I'll wait till I hear it from Mitsu. Even if it is more pricey, there will still be plenty of people lined up to get it. Even if they cost the same, you would still be a Subie fan so why are you so hung up price?
I'm a fan of many cars including the EVO but just not Mitsu as a company. Subaru makes many other nice cars besides the Impreza.
Originally Posted by XRS
Pleez people, the STI and the MR are SUPPOSED to be performance variations of the Impreza WRX and the Lancer EVO. Just be glad that your 2.0L outperforms their 2.0L
You mean 2.0L outperforms their 2.5L
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From: Columbia, SC
godai, jesus man, you obviously are in favor of the STi and that's fine but most of us are in favor of the MR. The MR won the test, so regardless of the "could haves" and all that, the fact is that the MR won. If you want an '05 STi over a MR then that is ok, no one really cares.
Oh and also. Even if Subaru did bring the Spec C over, then Mitsu would have a counter for it. The 03 evo's beat the 03 STi's and now the 05 MR beats the 05 STi, so my point is Mitsu will do what they have to be ahead of the STi in the United States. Hope that made sense.
Oh and also. Even if Subaru did bring the Spec C over, then Mitsu would have a counter for it. The 03 evo's beat the 03 STi's and now the 05 MR beats the 05 STi, so my point is Mitsu will do what they have to be ahead of the STi in the United States. Hope that made sense.
Last edited by eclipsegs2k1; Sep 3, 2004 at 09:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by eclipsegs2k1
godai, jesus man, you obviously are in favor of the STi and that's fine but most of us are in favor of the MR. The MR won the test, so regardless of the "could haves" and all that, the fact is that the MR won. If you want an '05 STi over a MR then that is ok, no one really cares.
Oh and also. Even if Subaru did bring the Spec C over, then Mitsu would have a counter for it. The 03 evo's beat the 03 STi's and now the 05 MR beats the 05 STi, so my point is Mitsu will do what they have to be ahead of the STi in the United States. Hope that made sense.
Oh and also. Even if Subaru did bring the Spec C over, then Mitsu would have a counter for it. The 03 evo's beat the 03 STi's and now the 05 MR beats the 05 STi, so my point is Mitsu will do what they have to be ahead of the STi in the United States. Hope that made sense.
You would hope? I think the fact is STi is meant to be more a compromise between performance and street. If they would go all out with performance with the Spec C then it makes it more an "EVO", Mitsu would have to counter with a better street car.
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Birmingham, AL
You are missing the point of the whole DOT thing. There are more then one 235 DOT tires out there. I would still be open to seeing if a simple tire change would change the entire handling impression of the STi and make it capable of tieing/keeping up with/besting/matching an MR. I say it is more to it then that, but I will humor you. Until you or someone else proves your point, it's all still heresay.
If one whole second per lap is "small margin" to you, so be it. I'd advise you to watch any timed racing event to gain further insight into why that is such a trite and uninformed statement.
You make it sound like the road manners of the Subaru are vastly superior to the Evo, have you driven one? My experience with a 30something married couple sums it up, I think. After the hubby takes his turn behind the wheel, he invites his wife to give it a try. Once we take a ten minute drive she shrugs and says its fine. He looks at her, asking if she's sure, as if wondering if she were holding back her opinion so as not to upset him. Her reply was more or less: "It drives like a car, I like it. You were making it out to be some sort of brutal monster that was hard to drive." The bought it.
My point is, when you have to start falling back on things like, oh yeah my car was cheaper/my car has cruise control/my dash is prettier/Mitsubishi is a sucky company/I've got a better street car/blah blah blah - that's all just sore loser excuse BS. We were all waiting to see how well the cars PERFORMED in PERFORMANCE tests. None of that other crap matters when you are staring at the tail end of a car that's beating you.
You want road manners, buy a Cadillac. They already said the Billsteins on the MR made it both ride better AND handle better. So when they "counter" again, performance will still be top priority.
If one whole second per lap is "small margin" to you, so be it. I'd advise you to watch any timed racing event to gain further insight into why that is such a trite and uninformed statement.
You make it sound like the road manners of the Subaru are vastly superior to the Evo, have you driven one? My experience with a 30something married couple sums it up, I think. After the hubby takes his turn behind the wheel, he invites his wife to give it a try. Once we take a ten minute drive she shrugs and says its fine. He looks at her, asking if she's sure, as if wondering if she were holding back her opinion so as not to upset him. Her reply was more or less: "It drives like a car, I like it. You were making it out to be some sort of brutal monster that was hard to drive." The bought it.
My point is, when you have to start falling back on things like, oh yeah my car was cheaper/my car has cruise control/my dash is prettier/Mitsubishi is a sucky company/I've got a better street car/blah blah blah - that's all just sore loser excuse BS. We were all waiting to see how well the cars PERFORMED in PERFORMANCE tests. None of that other crap matters when you are staring at the tail end of a car that's beating you.
You want road manners, buy a Cadillac. They already said the Billsteins on the MR made it both ride better AND handle better. So when they "counter" again, performance will still be top priority.
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From: Maryland
No need to really argue, only gonna be 1,000 MRs on the road what's the chance you run into one? Not to mention they will have paid most likely 8-15k more than the '05 STi people did for fractions of a second bragging rights on paper.
I mean why on earth would a dealership do anywhere below 5k OVER MSRP for a car that will have 1,000 people on the waiting list willing to pay 40k before it is even on the lots?
I mean why on earth would a dealership do anywhere below 5k OVER MSRP for a car that will have 1,000 people on the waiting list willing to pay 40k before it is even on the lots?
