A2 Designs - Lancer turbo for cheap
Originally Posted by rhyzin
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doubt it. still gotta look at what's being compared. A2 doesn't specify which 16g he's running. it's all trivial as if some of you believe a GT25R/T25BB is enough, then a small 16g will make comparable, if not more, power per psi. even a small 16g is an awesome starting turbo and a step ahead of any kit that's running a T25-whatever(IMO). depending on that flange, upgradability may be awesome as well.
RRM [supposedly] uses a Griffin core intercooler 18x7x3. A2 uses 28.25x7.5x2.5 of unknown[so far] origin. i say if a dinky 2G SMIC can cool 10-15psi of hot T-"toosmall" boost, then anything larger is good enough, esp a front mount.
if the manifold and downpipe fit like a glove, this may be the best budget turbo kit around. i'll be keeping track.
doubt it. still gotta look at what's being compared. A2 doesn't specify which 16g he's running. it's all trivial as if some of you believe a GT25R/T25BB is enough, then a small 16g will make comparable, if not more, power per psi. even a small 16g is an awesome starting turbo and a step ahead of any kit that's running a T25-whatever(IMO). depending on that flange, upgradability may be awesome as well.RRM [supposedly] uses a Griffin core intercooler 18x7x3. A2 uses 28.25x7.5x2.5 of unknown[so far] origin. i say if a dinky 2G SMIC can cool 10-15psi of hot T-"toosmall" boost, then anything larger is good enough, esp a front mount.
if the manifold and downpipe fit like a glove, this may be the best budget turbo kit around. i'll be keeping track.
i found this intercooler did the google search and it brought up ebay
Originally Posted by army685
yeah for 4-5 grand you can pay off your loan on your car! it is a lil steep! or you can do all motor to your car, i know a guy in wisconsin has no turbo or nitrious in his car and is running in the low 14's
Somehow I doubt this kit even competes with the RRM kit. Turbonetics has had a kit out for years, but RRM hasn't been affected one bit because an RRM kit is an RRM kit, so far no other company has made anything that competes directly with it. I liken an RRM kit to the fillet-mignon of the lancer turbo world, this kit would be a nice burger from Earl's or TGI Fridays.
As for the comparison between the turbo choice and the intercooler choice, remember bigger isn't always better. A T-28 or T-25 is more than enough for most people, plus the current kits come with a 16g. Go too large on the intercooler and you lose pressure which could result in reduced throttle response. I believe RRM is also using a new intercooler now, I believe ne evo mentioned this quite some time ago.
As for the comparison between the turbo choice and the intercooler choice, remember bigger isn't always better. A T-28 or T-25 is more than enough for most people, plus the current kits come with a 16g. Go too large on the intercooler and you lose pressure which could result in reduced throttle response. I believe RRM is also using a new intercooler now, I believe ne evo mentioned this quite some time ago.
Originally Posted by ambystom01
What does he have done?
He has every bolt on part you can think of header, intake, exhuast, piggy back ecu, pistons, rods, intake manifold, throttle body, everything ported, weight reduction, basically everything roadrace offers except the turbo, and hes in the 14's
Originally Posted by ambystom01
Somehow I doubt this kit even competes with the RRM kit. Turbonetics has had a kit out for years, but RRM hasn't been affected one bit because an RRM kit is an RRM kit, so far no other company has made anything that competes directly with it. I liken an RRM kit to the fillet-mignon of the lancer turbo world, this kit would be a nice burger from Earl's or TGI Fridays.
As for the comparison between the turbo choice and the intercooler choice, remember bigger isn't always better. A T-28 or T-25 is more than enough for most people, plus the current kits come with a 16g. Go too large on the intercooler and you lose pressure which could result in reduced throttle response. I believe RRM is also using a new intercooler now, I believe ne evo mentioned this quite some time ago.
As for the comparison between the turbo choice and the intercooler choice, remember bigger isn't always better. A T-28 or T-25 is more than enough for most people, plus the current kits come with a 16g. Go too large on the intercooler and you lose pressure which could result in reduced throttle response. I believe RRM is also using a new intercooler now, I believe ne evo mentioned this quite some time ago.
Before you lite me up, I know that you are buying a nice burger... That said, I've personally never tasted a burger as good as the ones I make. No joke, I taught myself to cook and I am teaching myself cars. Anyone can do it if they invest the time, money and the energy.
And before you think that A2 is some no name company, he has cred... he's all over the Mirage boards and has good product from the looks of it. I might just buy his stage two intake mani to see the kind of stuff he produces.
All I'm saying is be happy that there is another company/person egar to make products for our car... we need as much as we can get.
Fox
Evolving Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 216
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From: Tennessee
Originally Posted by Shingen
The best numbers I've seen for a RRM stage 1 kit selling for near three grand are around 180whp. Not that I'm knocking RRM in anyway, god only knows how the fanboys love to flame, but you could peice together a non-ic turbo setup for less than a grand, and teach yourself to tune and call it a day and get the same numbers.
Before you lite me up, I know that you are buying a nice burger... That said, I've personally never tasted a burger as good as the ones I make. No joke, I taught myself to cook and I am teaching myself cars. Anyone can do it if they invest the time, money and the energy.
And before you think that A2 is some no name company, he has cred... he's all over the Mirage boards and has good product from the looks of it. I might just buy his stage two intake mani to see the kind of stuff he produces.
All I'm saying is be happy that there is another company/person egar to make products for our car... we need as much as we can get.
Fox
Before you lite me up, I know that you are buying a nice burger... That said, I've personally never tasted a burger as good as the ones I make. No joke, I taught myself to cook and I am teaching myself cars. Anyone can do it if they invest the time, money and the energy.
And before you think that A2 is some no name company, he has cred... he's all over the Mirage boards and has good product from the looks of it. I might just buy his stage two intake mani to see the kind of stuff he produces.
All I'm saying is be happy that there is another company/person egar to make products for our car... we need as much as we can get.
Fox
Oh I'm by no means attacking the seller, or anyone who chooses to buy this kit or piece together their own, all I'm saying is that it's hardly appropriate to simply say "the RRM kit costs X dollars while this kit costs Y dollars, therefore the RRM kit is overpriced".
Originally Posted by army685
He has every bolt on part you can think of header, intake, exhuast, piggy back ecu, pistons, rods, intake manifold, throttle body, everything ported, weight reduction, basically everything roadrace offers except the turbo, and hes in the 14's
Originally Posted by ambystom01
Oh I'm by no means attacking the seller, or anyone who chooses to buy this kit or piece together their own, all I'm saying is that it's hardly appropriate to simply say "the RRM kit costs X dollars while this kit costs Y dollars, therefore the RRM kit is overpriced".
This kit isn't better because it cost X dollars but because for the investment of X dollers you get Y return which very well could exceed alternate choice Y's performence. A simple cost benifit analysis using common sense shows us that. At the price of 2500 dollars what you get is better. And even if the gains in whp isn't what alternitives might be what you save in cost can be better alocated to get you where you need to be.
RRM's price is steep, period. The product is quality... I've seen what these kits look like and the HP produced. I've been here awhile and seen it all. That said their price is such in part because they have a good product, but partly they are shrewed businessmen. They charge what they think they can get. Do they fleece you guys? All the time, all the way to the bank... and that's my opinion.
Two years ago I was on the band wagon leading the charge. But as time has gone on and I've learned more I'm more confident to do my own work and find the right deals. Sometimes they are the best and sometimes they are not. More than not though alternatives can be found for much less with the same or better quality.
If you thought I was making a judement simply based on price then you are wrong. If only for the fact that we need alternatives and a more diverese market for the Lancer community I'd go with this design. Chances are though in the future I'll be looking into building a custom setup.
Fox
That's exactly it though, RRM's product is quality. Is it pricey? Hell yes, with the conversion it would/will cost me 5000$-6000$ to go boosted. However, I'd have no problem paying that because I know that I won't get any surprises. That was the big problem with the turbonetics kit, it said it was fully bolt on and all that crap, but it wasn't, from what I remember fuel management was a problem, and I think there was an issue regarding plumbing. Again, I'm all for competition and diversity and such forth, but I simply don't think the two belong in the same group. This kit sounds great for guys like you that know what you're doing and can solve any problems that pop up. On the other hand, a kit like this would end up costing a guy like me a small fortune because I know nothing about tuning, satisfying oil needs, fabricating piping, etc.. I'd have to get all that done professionally which in the end would probably make the price far closer to that of the RRM kit.
Originally Posted by ambystom01
That's exactly it though, RRM's product is quality. Is it pricey? Hell yes, with the conversion it would/will cost me 5000$-6000$ to go boosted. However, I'd have no problem paying that because I know that I won't get any surprises. That was the big problem with the turbonetics kit, it said it was fully bolt on and all that crap, but it wasn't, from what I remember fuel management was a problem, and I think there was an issue regarding plumbing. Again, I'm all for competition and diversity and such forth, but I simply don't think the two belong in the same group. This kit sounds great for guys like you that know what you're doing and can solve any problems that pop up. On the other hand, a kit like this would end up costing a guy like me a small fortune because I know nothing about tuning, satisfying oil needs, fabricating piping, etc.. I'd have to get all that done professionally which in the end would probably make the price far closer to that of the RRM kit.
Mistakes happen, even on RRM's kits.
Fox
Well obviously I'm not going to go boosted without knowing how the car works, learning how to monitor things like AFR, EGT, boost, etc. properly and such forth, but I'm also not prepared to spend days without a car because I can't get it to idle right, I'm simply too busy right now for that kind of thing. Unfortunately tuner shops are few and far between up here in Calgary, so I need a kit with the best reputation for reliability and ease of use.
kinda OT, but to clarify, turbonetics doesn't make a turbo kit. it's a Turbo Specialties kit.
as far as what you guys are talking about, i agree with both of you. i personally follow kits like this while i direct noobs to RRM. if some folks want to discuss custom options, i give them my piece and try to send them off in the right direction so they can make choices they're comfortable with. money makes up for ignorance(and i don't mean that in a demeaning way).
as far as what you guys are talking about, i agree with both of you. i personally follow kits like this while i direct noobs to RRM. if some folks want to discuss custom options, i give them my piece and try to send them off in the right direction so they can make choices they're comfortable with. money makes up for ignorance(and i don't mean that in a demeaning way).