Evo AWD vs. others
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Evo AWD vs. others
Just curious on peoples opinions on how the AWD system on the Evo feels versus other cars such as the WRX and Audi Quatro system?
I have a A4 2.8 5 Sp. with Quatro. Before the A4 I had a Subaru Legacy GT (automatic - makes a different in AWD system) and my brother drives a 2002 WRX. I have found that the Audi system is much more transparent than the Subaru system. I can't feel it direct the power to the appropriate wheel like I could with the Subaru. Overall the Audi just provides smooth tremendous grip all the time.
Anyone who's driven the Evo and others have comments?
Thanks,
Bill
I have a A4 2.8 5 Sp. with Quatro. Before the A4 I had a Subaru Legacy GT (automatic - makes a different in AWD system) and my brother drives a 2002 WRX. I have found that the Audi system is much more transparent than the Subaru system. I can't feel it direct the power to the appropriate wheel like I could with the Subaru. Overall the Audi just provides smooth tremendous grip all the time.
Anyone who's driven the Evo and others have comments?
Thanks,
Bill
It's definately a more aggressive system the the Subaru and Audi. The new Evo 7 tore up the WRX Sti in a Best Motoring time trial. This was the GSR model with the ACD and AYC. The ACD is an electronically controlled multi-plate clutch design whereas the Subaru uses a viscous coupling unit.
Here's a quote from an article that best explains it:
"This multi-plate clutch helps maintain optimum traction by offering 3 times less clutch slippage than the current VCU type. Its durability and response levels are higher and it employs the steel plate used in a mechanical LSD.
An on-board computer calculates the optimum driving attitude using sensors which detect driver input and road conditions, and the resulting performance is similar to a direct 4WD system with a center diff that minimizes clutch slippage.
When accelerating, it approaches a direct drive 4WD system by minimizing clutch slippage, and distributes that power to the road. And when cornering hard, the system minimizes clutch slippage to maximize cornering response. Also drivers are able to switch the ACD to three settings tarmac, gravel and snow translating into a driver's adjustable center differential. In addition, to allow the Evo 7 to compete in gymkhanas and rallies, the ACD goes into ÒfreeÓ unengaged mode when handbrakes are used for tight turns."
Mark
Here's a quote from an article that best explains it:
"This multi-plate clutch helps maintain optimum traction by offering 3 times less clutch slippage than the current VCU type. Its durability and response levels are higher and it employs the steel plate used in a mechanical LSD.
An on-board computer calculates the optimum driving attitude using sensors which detect driver input and road conditions, and the resulting performance is similar to a direct 4WD system with a center diff that minimizes clutch slippage.
When accelerating, it approaches a direct drive 4WD system by minimizing clutch slippage, and distributes that power to the road. And when cornering hard, the system minimizes clutch slippage to maximize cornering response. Also drivers are able to switch the ACD to three settings tarmac, gravel and snow translating into a driver's adjustable center differential. In addition, to allow the Evo 7 to compete in gymkhanas and rallies, the ACD goes into ÒfreeÓ unengaged mode when handbrakes are used for tight turns."
Mark
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hi there
My brother has an Audi S4. The Quattro system is not a permanent 4WD system, but a Halex or sthg that's basically a FWD with the rear clutchin in when needed, like a Golf 4Motion or Mercedes 4Matic.
The car feels pretty ****ty, understeering like a FWD, then clutching in but kinda late. You have to use scandinavian flick technique to keep it on the line. Annoying.
The Evo permanent 4WD is much easier to control, very progressive and predictable. It will take a lot of speed to make the Evo lose stability, with a Quattro system the car is never stable!
My brother has an Audi S4. The Quattro system is not a permanent 4WD system, but a Halex or sthg that's basically a FWD with the rear clutchin in when needed, like a Golf 4Motion or Mercedes 4Matic.
The car feels pretty ****ty, understeering like a FWD, then clutching in but kinda late. You have to use scandinavian flick technique to keep it on the line. Annoying.
The Evo permanent 4WD is much easier to control, very progressive and predictable. It will take a lot of speed to make the Evo lose stability, with a Quattro system the car is never stable!
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Originally posted by Claudius
Hi there
My brother has an Audi S4. The Quattro system is not a permanent 4WD system, but a Halex or sthg that's basically a FWD with the rear clutchin in when needed, like a Golf 4Motion or Mercedes 4Matic.
The car feels pretty ****ty, understeering like a FWD, then clutching in but kinda late. You have to use scandinavian flick technique to keep it on the line. Annoying.
The Evo permanent 4WD is much easier to control, very progressive and predictable. It will take a lot of speed to make the Evo lose stability, with a Quattro system the car is never stable!
Hi there
My brother has an Audi S4. The Quattro system is not a permanent 4WD system, but a Halex or sthg that's basically a FWD with the rear clutchin in when needed, like a Golf 4Motion or Mercedes 4Matic.
The car feels pretty ****ty, understeering like a FWD, then clutching in but kinda late. You have to use scandinavian flick technique to keep it on the line. Annoying.
The Evo permanent 4WD is much easier to control, very progressive and predictable. It will take a lot of speed to make the Evo lose stability, with a Quattro system the car is never stable!
- Bill
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
From: LOndon
There are 2 ellements to the Evo 7 system. Firstly the ACD (active central diff) which sets the split between front and rear wheels and as mentioned below, this can be varied between 3 settings. The Tarmac setting gives approximately 50:50 split, the gravel moves the power more to the front and snow, the same again. Sorry, I don't know the exact figures.
The AYC (active yaw control) is by far the more "contovercial" piece of technology. Claudius and MichaelK hate it and on the 6, it really is very intrusive. However, it is much better on the 7. AYC redistributes the power across the raer axle to ensure the ideal split of power. In the 6 this redistribution is sudden and can be unnerving. However, on the 7 it is a lot better because of it combining with the ACD and because of a change to the ECU settings. If you want to take it to the limit, there is a sports ECU which SuperLancer talks about in another thread.
Compared with the S4 or Scooby, the overall handling is in a different league.
The AYC (active yaw control) is by far the more "contovercial" piece of technology. Claudius and MichaelK hate it and on the 6, it really is very intrusive. However, it is much better on the 7. AYC redistributes the power across the raer axle to ensure the ideal split of power. In the 6 this redistribution is sudden and can be unnerving. However, on the 7 it is a lot better because of it combining with the ACD and because of a change to the ECU settings. If you want to take it to the limit, there is a sports ECU which SuperLancer talks about in another thread.
Compared with the S4 or Scooby, the overall handling is in a different league.
Trending Topics
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR
"...with a Quattro system the car is never stable!"
Ummm, I have a car with Quattro. Perhaps "never stable" is a bit of hyperbole on your part? It is very stable. It is not a sports car. It is an exceptionally competent AWD wagon, that exhibits great stability, especially in inclement (rainy) weather.
Ummm, I have a car with Quattro. Perhaps "never stable" is a bit of hyperbole on your part? It is very stable. It is not a sports car. It is an exceptionally competent AWD wagon, that exhibits great stability, especially in inclement (rainy) weather.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
My brother has an Audi S4. The Quattro system is not a permanent 4WD system, but a Halex or sthg that's basically a FWD with the rear clutchin in when needed, like a Golf 4Motion or Mercedes 4Matic.
Is his S4 an automatic? If believe Subaru and Audi do the same thing when the cars are automatics. They are primarily front wheel drive until traction is needed and then you can feel it slam the power to the back.
Just FYI. I have an A4, and will be seriously considering an Evo if it comes to the states, after my lease is up. The car seems to have more what im looking for right now. But, comparing an A4/S4 to an Evo is comparing apples and oranges. The A4 and especially the S4 are luxury sport sedans, born and bred on the Autobahn. They are made to cruise at high speeds, in luxury and comfort. The Evo is a rally bred, race car with a street legal interior
Very different cars. For that reason, the Quattro system is made to be comfortable and safe, creating a sure footed, easy to drive vehicle in all conditions. The AWD in the Evo is much more aggressive, made for the track and rally.
Last edited by Twister; Dec 15, 2001 at 01:26 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
My brother has an Audi S4. The Quattro system is not a permanent 4WD system, but a Halex or sthg that's basically a FWD with the rear clutchin in when needed, like a Golf 4Motion or Mercedes 4Matic.
The car feels pretty ****ty, understeering like a FWD, then clutching in but kinda late. You have to use scandinavian flick technique to keep it on the line. Annoying.
The Evo permanent 4WD is much easier to control, very progressive and predictable. It will take a lot of speed to make the Evo lose stability, with a Quattro system the car is never stable!
The car feels pretty ****ty, understeering like a FWD, then clutching in but kinda late. You have to use scandinavian flick technique to keep it on the line. Annoying.
The Evo permanent 4WD is much easier to control, very progressive and predictable. It will take a lot of speed to make the Evo lose stability, with a Quattro system the car is never stable!
Guest
Posts: n/a
This is from Audi's web site:
The quattro® permanent all-wheel drive has a long tradition – more than 20 years. On the permanent all-wheel drive quattro® power is distributed as needed to all four wheels. This system provides high levels of active safety, and dependable traction on virtually all surfaces as well as excellent road holding, even in cross-winds. It is superior to manual all-wheel-drive systems because of this “permanent safety advantage”. On cars with longitudinally installed engines, a Torsen® differential distributes power and compensates for differences in wheel rotation when cornering; if the car has a transverse engine, these tasks are performed by a Haldex® clutch.
The quattro® permanent all-wheel drive has a long tradition – more than 20 years. On the permanent all-wheel drive quattro® power is distributed as needed to all four wheels. This system provides high levels of active safety, and dependable traction on virtually all surfaces as well as excellent road holding, even in cross-winds. It is superior to manual all-wheel-drive systems because of this “permanent safety advantage”. On cars with longitudinally installed engines, a Torsen® differential distributes power and compensates for differences in wheel rotation when cornering; if the car has a transverse engine, these tasks are performed by a Haldex® clutch.
Newbie
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Um Andrew, it's Torsen (short for Torque Sensing), not torsion. Big difference.
Audis are nice, but they are pigs. I drove a brand new A4 with the Sports Package about a week ago. It competes very well with Camrys, Accords and Maximas (if you ignore the terrible reliability of Audis), but it would hang with the EVO VII only until the Mitsu driver stared his engine.
Stock S4s dyno at 170HP at the wheels (250HP at the crank). I would hope that Mitsu's engineers would do a better job at keeping drivetrain losses down. Anyone know what EVO VIIs dyno at?
Audis are nice, but they are pigs. I drove a brand new A4 with the Sports Package about a week ago. It competes very well with Camrys, Accords and Maximas (if you ignore the terrible reliability of Audis), but it would hang with the EVO VII only until the Mitsu driver stared his engine.
Stock S4s dyno at 170HP at the wheels (250HP at the crank). I would hope that Mitsu's engineers would do a better job at keeping drivetrain losses down. Anyone know what EVO VIIs dyno at?