They probably took the ITR motor and put it in something else and now they are trying to Pawn off the car because the title in no good.

 

i can understand why you imply that i'm a poser, but you haven't read the original post apparently.

THE SUSPENSION HAS BEEN CHANGED. is this a STOCK ITR? no, guy. it's already been fooled with, so he's not buying ITR suspension for going through the twisties.

the b18c5 is not known "world wide" because it's offered only in the USA. it's the usdm type r engine; the worldwide engine is b18c, which has about 10 more hp.

as for a hybrid motor? RELIABILITY ISSUES. read anywhere, it takes MAJOR work to get an LSVTEC to work well street wise. then there's the CRVTEC, which i'm surprised you didn't mention, since you're so obviously up on hybrid engines. this engine is probably the most popular engine building thing out right now; only problem is there aren't many parts for this engine--mostly you'd be fabricating or swapping parts around.

the b16a2 is a vtec engine. b18b and b20 engines are not vtecs.. i think those are the only b-series engines that are not vtec.

so anyway, what's left that's type r on the thing? the strut bars and roll bars? otherwise it's a damn integra with a civic engine.

AND YES, YOU DO THINK ABOUT THE ENGINE WHEN YOU BUY A CAR, EVEN THE ITR. why do you think honda gave it more horsepower? so we could completely disregard its power and say, hey let's take it to the track so we turn it? hey, i'm very anti-drag racing, but this makes no sense. you don't buy the car JUST for the engine, but you do take it into account. it's a major factor.

he IS getting raped on this deal because it's not worth 9k. if it were a real type r with the real type r suspension and engine, then it's a great deal. if he's just going to build an engine, he should get a civic, a LIGHTER chassis. the engine's going to go? why would he even look at this car then? why would he look at any car that's working? just get a shell somewhere for like 1-2k.

also, stick shift takes at the most a week to learn, you should just learn, it's so worth it.

 

also, what other engines, outside of rotaries, can produce as much power as the itr's 1.8? "decent" my ***.

 

Did you miss that, hueman? And where did I call, or even imply that you were a poser? And no, I am not all up on hybrid motors. I am not much of a Honda guy, so I don't know of all the block/head/cam combo you can throw in. Besides, if it was going to turn into a project, forced induction is the way to go. There's only so much you can get out of a 1.8L NA 4 banger. Do B series motors put out good numbers? Sure, for an NA stock motor, yes it does. But ****, seriously, what is 200hp?

So he should get a Civic to build just because he's not getting the B18C5? If you ever get a chance to hit a real track, try and get behind the wheels of an Integra, then a Civic. And come back and tell me how the chassis feel on the two cars. Unless you're ready to weld up the seams on the Civic, the chassis feel simply doesn't compare to the Integra. Or do I need to get into their braking power? Fluid reservior size? Fade resistance? Just because a Civic is a lighter car doesn't make it a track warrior. I've seen plenty of EG's and EK's built and let me tell you, it's more than just throwing in a set of shocks and springs, and a beefy motor. Gearing, LSD, a-arms, brakes... How many race cars have you seen built?

A set of "real" stock TypeR suspension can be had for cheap, tons of them laying around from guys who swapped in coilovers. He can then turn around and sell the KYB and Eibach to someone else who knows he might even turn a profit. That is, if he's tested the car and found that the new setup is inferior to the stock setup? I still don't see how he's getting raped if the chassis and suspension and tranny on the car is good. I don't know, perhaps we have different ideas of what's "worth it". For me, I am all about going fast, and the ITR is a very well balanced car that can use more power, and sounds like a cheap ITR in need of a beefy engine is just my cup of tea.

And before I answer your last question, are we talking strictly 1800cc or less, NA stock motor? If that's the case, then yes the B18C takes the cake, though I don't like the NA rule, it just seems silly... Just like I think Honda is silly for sticking with NA race motors.

 

you implied that i'm a poser when i brought up the engine and you said posers buy the itr for engines. forced induction on a type r motor? are you nuts? the thing is built specifically for all motor--the compression ratio's too high to fully utilize forced induction. it's just dumb. and no, 200 hp isn't much in the bigger picture, but for its price range, and all? weren't you the one saying HP is for posers?


for 9k? yeah, a civic with a gsr motor is a pretty good deal to start. the chassis(es?) are very similar on both cars... only yeah, the civic is lighter. why dont' you drive the two and see what's more comfortable? i've driven both and would rather have a hatchback any day of the week. it's very agile and pretty sturdy as is. why would you say that an integra's SO MUCH higher in the chassis ladder? it's not. there's very similar amounts of space in each engine bay; the parts between the dc2 and eg chassises ARE interchangeable.


there's no way in hell a salvaged integra lacking almost all of (if not ALL) its type r background is worth 9k. you can buy ANY integra for less. as for the suspension? yeah, he can do that. or he can put it on the hatch. but whatever the case, he'd have to upgrade anyway to get better performance. a b16a2 motor/tranny setup does not have an LSD either. the type r is very well balanced, i agree. however, 9k for a salvaged type r without motor or original suspesion? no way. just buy a regular integra. or, as i've suggested, build a hatch.



i like NA because the response is fantastic, and the sound is beyond compare (when built properly). i am getting an evo, so i guess i'm "selling out" but whatever. still a big NA fan.

but the point here is this: he should not buy a salvaged car that, while at stock form is wonderful, does not have any of its former glory. it's a blank canvas he'd be pretty much buying; why not buy a cheaper canvas and start out with a bang? because he wants to say he "owns a type r?"... it's not much of one with a civic engine and koni shocks eibach coilovers. he shouldn't get the car because it's a waste of money.

 

The stock tranny is still in it, meaning LSD still in. The chassis is still stronger than regular Integra's and Civic's. Yes, I did say that only posers rave about the ITR's power and don't seem to have a clue about its handling characteristics. I never said that it's not good to have power in a car that's balanced and handles great. Yes, I know about the TypeR's balanced motor and high compression ratio, making it a good NA motor, I never said boosting the B18C5. The LS motor seems to be a much better candidate for FI route. For its price range, the B18C5 is hardly the motor of choice... I mean, how much do those engine shops want for one of those? It's ridiculous to pay that kind of money that only puts out 200hp at the crank. I feel that he DC2 is a better chassis vs the EG or the EK, that's from my track experience. Whether you believe it or not, it's up to you. Like I said, unless you're ready to do some welding, the DC2 structural integrity is far superior to the EG and the EK. And if you're racing with a rule book in your hand, then you're further limited by the modifications you can do, and the DC2 especially the R will put you ahead of the pack, there's no questions about it.

The car has a salvage title because it's a theft recovery, it's not from a bad wreck. It's structural integrity was not compromised, it's only missing a motor which, IMO, isn't the most powerful thing in the world anyway... Then you have aftermarket strut and springs and that may or may not hurt your handling. Everything else is still there including the arms, LSD, strut brace, and stiffened chassis.

The NA vs FI argument is rather pointless. For the same displacement, you can always get more gain out of power adders, there's no question about that. If you make your turbo selection carefully, lag is at minimal. I've personally seen a turbo'ed B18 dynoed at 400whp on pump gas, I'd like to see an NA car doing that, even on race gas!

The bang-for-the-buck argument will never be settled. You can always build something faster for cheaper especially if you do your own labor or if you can fabricate parts. Let's not take things to the extreme and look at one of the more popular cars we have: the Fox Body LX 5.0 which can be had for maybe $4k? Throw in a set of Steeda setup, some good tires, intake header exhaust, mild P&P, decent cam and BAM you have yourself a 300whp car that performs respectably on the track. So if that's the argument, who needs to build a hatch? I think the idea is, that for $9k, you have a car that already has a good chassis. You can spend $18k to buy a low mileage stock ITR, or spend $9k on the chassis and $4k and build yourself a powerful motor and you have yourself a good car. That extra $4k savings can go a long way if you're hitting the track regularly... $1k for a cage, another $2k for harness, seat, suit, helmet, gloves, shoes... And you still have a grand for tires and brake pads and fluids.