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Such a thing as too much grip?

 
Old Jun 5, 2019, 06:38 PM
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Such a thing as too much grip?

Wondered what the community thoughts were on this, my 9 is currently on Michelin Pilot Sport 4 and these are great in the dry and wet. On dry highways and countryside roads you have to be driving insanely fast to unstick the car, which, while safe from having the ability to react and control the car, makes it almost boring to drive fast on road.

I recently had my eyes somewhat opened as last week as I took my car on track in the pouring rain...it was SO MUCH FUN! The lack of grip and the ability to induce +50m drifts at hilarious angles and recover was intoxicating! It came to my mind that the instead of having a set of trackday wheels/tires on standby, you'd likely have alot more fun on track if you had a set of the worst chinese eco tires money can buy on standby! Sure you'd not be able to drive around track as fast, but the ability to make the evo break loose would surely be worth it!?

Less traction = less stress on the drivetrain (than G-force inducing semi slicks), brakes, also cheaper tires are well...cheaper AND you get to drive the car like a hero at much lower (and thereby safer) speed.

What do you lot reckon?


Here's a Subaru owner making my point!
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Old Jun 5, 2019, 06:42 PM
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I've always been a fan of sticky track tires and not that sticky street tires... although I'm currently dailying r888r's
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 01:24 PM
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You're not wrong if fun is what you're after.

I'll just leave this here.

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Old Jun 6, 2019, 02:34 PM
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It would be fun, but you're not going to go fast. My fun at a track day comes from improving my lap times. If I wanted to I was able to overdrive the NT01's and drift the car fairly handily.
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 04:47 PM
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Too much grip is certainly a thing. Toyota gave the Frisbee the tires from the Prius to reduce grip, arguably making it more fun.
In a competition sense, too much tire/mechanical grip can prevent tires from getting properly warmed up, leaving them short of of the maximum grip potential. While this could be fun, it's not good for lap times.
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
It would be fun, but you're not going to go fast. My fun at a track day comes from improving my lap times. If I wanted to I was able to overdrive the NT01's and drift the car fairly handily.
Yeah I think my problem is, I've spent time in search of absolute maximum in race cars and won championships and it just seems a bit of an exercise in futility trying to get the absolute maximum out of my largely stock Evo for no real reward as I feel if I drive at maximum attack all I'm going to do is break expensive things and I don't want that at all.

Do space savers fit the evo?
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Old Jun 6, 2019, 10:35 PM
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If you keep suspension articulating, not overly stiff, and keep original tire size 235/45x17, coupled to forgiving quality daily driving tire compund- fresh and predictable - I think Evo can be huge fun on backroad.

Key is that the chassis be a bit fine-tuned to eliminate the US Evo 8/9 understeer propensity - not present in X with AYC!!! But we are missing the magic AYC.

So setup car is probably huge fun, and safe, as fresh modern daily driving tires are great: dependable grip, consistent and predictable response.
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by banzaievo View Post
Yeah I think my problem is, I've spent time in search of absolute maximum in race cars and won championships and it just seems a bit of an exercise in futility trying to get the absolute maximum out of my largely stock Evo for no real reward as I feel if I drive at maximum attack all I'm going to do is break expensive things and I don't want that at all.

Do space savers fit the evo?
I don't think its any easier on the car..

The Evo came with a space saver in the US, so yes.
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
I don't think its any easier on the car..

The Evo came with a space saver in the US, so yes.
For some reason I seem to remember it didnt fit the front and you had to swap a rear to the front and put spare on the back. Im probably wrong on this tho
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 01:28 PM
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I think they used that concept on the Toyota GT86 platform. They sold it with thinner tires so that it would be easier to break loose and have fun with. To answer your question though, there is too much grip when your control arms start to bend from the forces being applied by the unyielding grip or if you are constantly de beading your tires. I suppose there would also be too much grip if your windshield shatters when turning through the chassis flexing. We would likely break our necks before that happens. So there if very RARELY too much grip
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 03:59 PM
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It's funny. There are times when I drive someone else's slower car with less grip on an autocross course and really enjoy the experience.

However, when I'm driving my Evo on an autocross course, at no point do I wish my car had less grip.

For me, too much grip or too much power would be the point at which I'm too afraid to go past 8/10ths with the car. As long as I can go 10/10ths at whatever I'm doing with high confidence that I can handle or recover from whatever the car will do, I'm happy.
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Old Jun 7, 2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by banzaievo View Post
Yeah I think my problem is, I've spent time in search of absolute maximum in race cars and won championships and it just seems a bit of an exercise in futility trying to get the absolute maximum out of my largely stock Evo for no real reward as I feel if I drive at maximum attack all I'm going to do is break expensive things and I don't want that at all.

Do space savers fit the evo?
sounds like you wanna do some drift events... pick up something cheap and rwd, weld the diff, get some cheap stiff coilovers, go have fun...
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