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FQ-300 is an awful seller

 
Old Oct 24, 2011, 08:52 AM
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FQ-300, buyers beware!!!

John sold me an Eclipse 8-disc CD changer. He advertised it as being BNIB. No mention of any flaws. I paid his full asking price of $100, including extra for PayPal fees and a full $20 to ship the item (which was about $7 more than typical FedEx Ground pricing). That all worked out to ~$124. I asked specifically to double box the item and he said "no problem".

Here is the original sale thread. Notice that he deleted all the photos and the description. It does clearly state BNIB (brand new in box) in the header.

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sa...-magazine.html

The item arrived, no double boxing, the original box was beat up by UPS and it had two large labels stuck to the box.

I opened the item up and found this, right on the front face of the CD changer:



A huge scuff/scratch, 1" wide, 3" long from the door opening/closing.

I paid a premium for this item to have a nice original box and a new in box item. Instead I have a beat up, falling apart box and a changer that looks like it has been used heavily.

When I contacted John, I respectfully asked him about the double boxing and if he was aware of the flaws. He claimed that it was a floor model and that I shouldn't expect it to be like new. He said he never looked at the item and didn't know about the scratch. He also acted like the condition of the box didn't matter.

Given the condition of the item and the box, I asked him for $30 back on the transaction. I thought that was fair and represented the difference in value from a 'new in box' item to one that was used heavily. He replied and said that "$30 is a massive stretch" and he would give me back $15 and I should be happy. I'm sorry, but when you pay a premium price for and item, pay extra for shipping, and give paypal fees, you should expect what you bought and paid for. $15 back is a joke.

For reference, $100 is the average selling price of these changers (in new condition) on Ebay, so he did not give me any kind of 'great deal'. I paid a fair price for what was supposed to be a new item, not a 'scratch and dent' item.

So, after going back and forth a few times, I decided to file with PayPal and post this here. Sorry John, but you had your chances to make this right.

Last edited by billbillw; Oct 28, 2011 at 01:06 PM.
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Old Oct 27, 2011, 10:10 AM
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I'm looking into this...
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Old Oct 27, 2011, 05:57 PM
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First, Mr. Williams was offered a refund of shipping charges of $19.80, which he refused. He initially "demanded" $30 to compensate for the small scratch which looks to be magnified in the picture. As I find out everyday, people's inability to have full reading comprehension is clearly evident here. As I explained to Mr. Williams, the item was a brand new FLOOR/DISPLAY MODEL! When I purchased it, the changer door was in the open position. The clerk wrapped up the changer and it had sat in the box the entire time. The box had a ding on one of the corners and looked a little worn because it had been sitting out for who knows how long. I also clearly stated in a "pm" that it was going to be shipped in the original box. The shipping charge that was paid barely covered that. The original box in another box would still have the same wear and ding as before, so this part of the story is irrelevant. Anyone can believe what ever they would like. Why in the hell would I try to hide the scratch, especially after I was just screwed over to the tune of $300+ dollars with the EVO 9 Front Bumper I purchased on here a while back (for the same exact reason). After receiving Mr. Williams concern, I offered what I felt was a fair refund, the shipping charges of $19.80. I didn't have to offer anything, but I did, because I truly didn't examine the changer for flaws and I thought it would be the right thing to do. It was purchased for a discounted price and all the hardware and wiring had never been touched, hence the description "BNIB". I do not respond to "demands" and name calling, which is what Mr. Williams resorted to. To top it off, Mr. Williams filed a claim through PayPal for an amount of $40, instead of the original $30. Go figure. I tried to be reasonable and admitted that I didn't know the scratch was there. After all had been said, he decides to threaten to send back the now "used" changer in a box that is worse than what was received. My feedback speaks for itself. My membership on this forum, including discussions, buying, and selling have been nothing but positive until now. I remove all sold items after sale, just like every other person on this forum does, so again, that part of his story is irrelevant.

Last edited by FQ-300; Oct 27, 2011 at 06:01 PM.
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Old Oct 27, 2011, 07:35 PM
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For the record, there as been absolutely no 'name calling' on my part, nor any "demands". I simply told John what would make me happy and when he didn't want to send me back that amount, I offered to return it for a full refund. He didn't respond to that, so I filed a claim.

For some strange reason, John seems to think that because he did not properly inspect this changer before shipping, he are not responsible for the flaw. He acts like he is not obligated to offer anything and he is being kind for offering $20. Why does he think that? It is always a seller's responsibility to note significant flaws. They don't get a free pass because they didn't inspect before selling.

He says the scratch looks magnified, but I assure you, it is not at all. The scratch extends across the entire front left panel section and is like I said, approx 3"x1". I've attached another photo with a tape measure for scale.

He advertised this a BNIB, which most people will agree, means no flaws. This scratch is a significant cosmetic flaw. I don't know if it is from heavy use, poor packing, or a combination of both.

Regarding the double boxing, I asked specifically to double box the item and his response to that request was "no problem". I still have that PM. The shipping money I provided should have more than covered the cost of double boxing if he had followed my suggestions for using FedEx Kinkos to get the best shipping rate. Instead he took it to the UPS store, which everyone knows, marks up the shipping rates significantly. Not my problem, that was his choice.

Double boxing is very important with any electronic or delicate mechanical device. The original box is meant for store display and pallet shipping, not for UPS/FedEx handling. I've seen countless items damaged due to not being double boxed. It was important to me, I requested it, and he blew it off even after he said "no problem."

When I first contacted him with notice of the problems, I was very polite about things and gave the chance to offer a refund. His response acted like both issues were insignificant and you did not offer any money back, instead, he asked me what I thought was reasonable.

I thought about it and I politely responded saying that a refund of $30 would make me happy with the deal. That seemed like a reasonable amount to me. Most retailers mark down their 'scratch and dent' items by about 20-30%. I think that most would agree this is now a scratch and dent item, not BNIB.

His response to that was "$30 is a massive stretch my friend. I will generously do $15 and call it a day." To me, that was very cocky and seemed like an insult.

It wasn't until later that he came back and upped it to $19.80. It is absurd that he could offer $19.80, but not add another $10.20 to make a buyer happy. I believe at one point he said that his feedback didn't mean anything to him. Well, that just shows what kind of seller he is. He doesn't care if buyers are happy.

Somewhere after that point, he suggested I try to sell the item on Ebay for $75 (which would be difficult with that scratch) and buy another one that didn't have flaws for $100. After that, I "would be back to square one". Of course, I didn't like that idea, so I responded with another alternative that I just send the changer back for a full refund, or file a claim if needed. I noted that the box is not in good shape now (due to the lack of double boxing) and that I couldn't guarantee that it would survive the trip back. BTW, the changer is no more "used" than it was when I received it. I hooked it up to a test setup on a table and tested it for about 10 minutes. It has not been installed yet and is still in the box.

I gave him a couple days to respond to that last offer to send it back, but he ignored it. After that, I filed with PayPal, and yes, I did up it to $40. If someone is going to make me go through the hassle of filing a claim with PayPal I am going to ask for more.

And again, for reference, this was the last Eclipse CH3083 on Ebay. It was BNIB from a dealer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250911588843...#ht_500wt_1015

It was listed for 10 days and failed to sell for $100. I might have bought it, but I don't want to be stuck with two and John doesn't seem agreeable to me sending his scratched one back to him.

I am still willing to settle this for $30 and drop the claim.
Attached Thumbnails FQ-300 is an awful seller-eclipse-scratch-2011-10-27-003-800x532-.jpg  

Last edited by billbillw; Oct 28, 2011 at 04:39 AM.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 08:08 AM
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Second, there is no free pass as you referred. I agree. That is why I opted to refund the shipping on a mistake that I made. The comment about feedback can be interpreted however you like. Does it make or break someone from purchasing? Sure it could. Does the comment make me a poor seller? Based on the feedback I have established while in this form, no it does not. Again, for the umptenth time, if there was a flaw and I had known about it, I would have disclosed it from the get go. I'm not out for anyone's money or to pull a fast one. Filing a claim was your choice and no I will not issue a $40 refund. I will issue the $30 refund to make you content and send you on your way with what you believe to be a poor transaction. Shoot me your PayPal address and I will await verification of the claim being dropped. Mods, take note of this and realize that if actions on Mr. Williams part are not followed through with, there will be a problem. Thank you and have a good day.

Last edited by FQ-300; Oct 28, 2011 at 08:33 AM.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FQ-300 View Post
Second, there is no free pass as you referred. I agree. That is why I opted to refund the shipping on a mistake that I made. The comment about feedback can be interpreted however you like. Does it make or break someone from purchasing? Sure it could. Does the comment make me a poor seller? Based on the feedback I have established while in this form, no it does not. Again, for the umptenth time, if there was a flaw and I had known about it, I would have disclosed it from the get go. I'm not out for anyone's money or to pull a fast one. Filing a claim was your choice and no I will not issue a $40 refund. Seeing how you are here to purchase electronics and not actually contribute to the forums in any significant way, I will issue the $30 refund to make you content and send you on your way with what you believe to be a poor transaction. Shoot me your PayPal address and I will await verification of the claim being dropped. Mods, take note of this and realize that if actions on Mr. Williams part are not followed through with, there will be a problem. Thank you and have a good day.
John,
You simply need to respond in the PayPal claims center. They should have sent you an email last night saying that I was willing to accept a $30 refund to resolve the case. Follow the instruction in that email and the claim will be automatically be dropped when you initiate the refund.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 08:44 AM
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Bill,

Email sent to PayPal 2 minutes ago stating to issue refund in the amount of $30. Let me know when you receive confirmation.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by FQ-300 View Post
Bill,

Email sent to PayPal 2 minutes ago stating to issue refund in the amount of $30. Let me know when you receive confirmation.
No change in PayPal status that I can see. You might have to actually log into PayPal, go to resolution center and respond there and if there is an option to refund the $30, initiate the refund yourself. I don't know if PayPal will do that for you.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 09:08 AM
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An email sent by PayPal had the instructions to respond directly to the email. I logged in and struck the respond key only to find no where to respond on the page. It may take some time for PayPal to acknowledge the email and take action. I will check periodically throughout the day.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 12:59 PM
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Transaction complete.
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Old Oct 28, 2011, 01:06 PM
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Case closed. Issue resolved.
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