Ralliart Lancer shift behaviour questions

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Oct 29, 2010 | 06:44 AM

richardjh

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From: Australia

Ralliart Lancer shift behaviour questions

I've had a few TC-SST gearshifts that have felt a little unusual - just thought I would inquire with other owners who have this transmission.

First off, some background. Near-stock RA, but with boostpill and matching ECU flash maps... so has around 15% more torque and power than factory tune.

Gearshift Q1

When changing from 1st to 2nd at WOT in NORMAL/MANUAL mode, the revs can flare. 2nd gear doesn't grab hard.

Doesn't seem to ever happen in SPORT mode.

My question: Am I imagining things? Or does NORMAL mode use reduced clutch pressure and/or "smoother" engagement compared to SPORT mode?

A sensible person could say that WOT 1st -> 2nd shifts with higher boost could possibly warrant selecting SPORT mode!

Gearshift Q2

In SPORT / MANUAL mode.

Downshifting 4->3->2 approaching corner. Turn-in at 30km/h.

On one-third throttle out of corner, up to approx. 4400rpm, and select 3rd.

Revs flare rapidly/momentarily to 4600, then settle back down where they belong in 3rd gear.

I have logs. And because I have logs, I'll regurgitate them!

Code:

 
Time   RPM    PSIG   Load  TPS
4.98   3500   6.35   122   34
5.05   3531   7.12   126   34
5.13   3625   7.36   128   34
5.20   3656   7.70   130   34
5.28   3719   7.65   130   34
5.35   3813   7.60   131   34
5.43   3875   7.41   130   34
5.50   3938   7.17   129   34
5.58   4031   6.93   128   34
5.65   4063   6.78   126   34
5.73   4125   6.73   125   34
5.80   4188   6.54   124   34
5.88   4250   6.35   123   34
5.95   4313   6.15   123   34
6.03   4406   6.10   122   34
6.10   4438   6.06   121   34
6.18   4594   5.91   120   34
6.25   4625   5.77   120   34  <- Peak RPM in 2nd gear.
6.33   4281   6.35   122   33  <- RPM now decreasing.
6.40   3938   6.93   123   34
6.48   3750   7.65   126   34
6.55   3688   7.99   128   33
6.63   3656   7.70   127   33
6.70   3656   7.36   125   32
6.78   3656   6.83   123   31
6.85   3719   5.67   118   30  <- Acceleration in 3rd from here
6.93   3969   3.88   106   29

My question: Could this brief flare-up simply be the TC-SST getting caught with its pants down, having previously pre-selected 1st gear on the "odd" input shaft? I was in sport mode, after all, so it could have planned ahead when braking to 30km/h in 2nd... and with me only using 1/3 throttle thereafter, I'm wondering if it simply didn't get the memo that an upshift was coming.

Is this likely to be how it works? Can you get a brief rev flare as it gets its shifting ready?

Boy, this transmission is an interesting beast. Life was so simple when I stuffed up my own manual gearshifts - I never wondered why graunching synchro noises happened here or there! :P

Rich

Oct 29, 2010 | 10:29 AM

robevo8

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From: victoria, bc

i dont have tons of input into your questions... but give this a read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox.. i find it performs very similar.. i know its for a VW but i learned a fair bit from this and how the sst works, when i first got my X MR it did weird things that i now know are normal..

sorry i couldnt be more specific

Oct 29, 2010 | 02:10 PM

2Many2Mod

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From: Mass

On your first question, my understanding is that in sport mode it will engage the second clutch faster than in normal mode, which would mean you'd be slipping the clutch in when you're driving aggressively and let is shift on normal mode.

As good as I've found this tranny is at predicting what the right thing to do with the clutch is... I often wish it could do what I would typically do if I had a regular clutch.

Oct 29, 2010 | 02:32 PM

GST Motorsports

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From: Hayward

Richard you are running the GST Base Map correct?

If so I would love you to do some testing for me. I think I know what your "issue" is.

Also, just FYI:

1st = OddClutch
2nd = EvenClutch
3rd = OddClutch
4th = EvenClutch
5th = OddClutch
6th = EvenClutch

Clutch pressure usually increase as the gears increase, as do temps.

Another good thing to know are that the Even/odd clutches get a rest when they are not in use, which shows on heat shedding on the unused clutch.

- Bryan

Last edited by GST Motorsports; Oct 29, 2010 at 02:35 PM.

Oct 29, 2010 | 03:53 PM

hotshot1

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From: southeast wi

so bryan by saying the the clutches get a rest should you not stay in the same gear for long periods of time if you dont have to? and are you also saying that your transmission runs hotter at 35 mph in 6th gear than for say driving in 3rd or 4th gear at 3-4k rpms

Oct 29, 2010 | 04:10 PM

richardjh

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From: Australia

Quote:

Originally Posted by GST Motorsports

Richard you are running the GST Base Map correct?

If so I would love you to do some testing for me. I think I know what your "issue" is.

- Bryan

Hi Bryan.

Yes, I'm running GST Base Map - Boost pill V2 93oct (53610010).

I'll PM you.

Rich

PS. I was actually preparing to drop the above questions into the "RA / GST Basemap" thread, but thought I wouldn't bother you until I'd pulled together a bit more background info on what was "typical" for TC-SST.

Oct 29, 2010 | 04:42 PM

GST Motorsports

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From: Hayward

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotshot1

Sorry I should have said what I was speaking to was at WOT. But yes, the active clutch runs a little warmer even while normal driving, but temp plateaus and is just normal operation

- Bryan

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Oct 31, 2010 | 02:24 PM

lousEVOxmr

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From: Canada,montreal

rich,
for your first question its simple "normal mode "
it makes it better for a DD, less shock,
i cant remember where i was reading that but getrag actully made the shifting to feel hard on sport mode and s-sport for the evo, so it can feel more agressive lol...

not really sure why ..

Oct 31, 2010 | 09:15 PM

richardjh

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From: Australia

Quote:

Originally Posted by lousEVOxmr

Cool, thanks. I think this just wasn't that noticable in 1st gear on the stock tune. Now I've got the GST "Hoon Tune" * installed, I must remember to select trans mode appropriately.

Rich

* Hoon is an Australian expression. Sort of means "petrolhead".

Dec 13, 2010 | 08:07 PM

#10

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Richard - did you make any progress on this? I'm making 190KW/260HP ATW and I've been slipping since running GST V1. Now that I have a custom tune, I really need to get this sorted. Seems like not many tuners have figured out the SST...

Dec 22, 2010 | 06:45 PM

#11

richardjh

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From: Australia

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcrusader

Hi, and sorry for the delay. I was on hols.

Not really. I just switch into SPORT mode as soon as I start the car. There's still the occasional rev flare changing around 4500rpm, but it's very rare.

I'm content to leave this issue pending for now, as I suspect Brian won't be able to resist poking at this area in the near future (if he isn't alrady).

In the meantime, I have plenty of other stuff to do and learn with this car - finally got my wideband working. SST stuff can wait...