I'm looking for anyone's advice on turns 4 and 5 (r,l) as I haven't found the right line or markers.

Any advice?

A friend of mine has been successfully driving challenge races there for some years and surely knows what you need. I'll forward this over to her and let you know what she says. Maybe she will let me show you some of their lap videos as well...

Here is her response...

"The best way to take turns 4 & 5 are to come down the hill with a fair bit on the throttle, after apexing turn 3 with a lot more throttle, aim for the seam in the center of the track stay on it, brake & downshift in straight line, hug right stay on the red & white turtles, dust the brakes to settle the car then push out using all of the real estate."

I can't give you much info about "le cirque" ("the circus") ... but I do know a thing or two about "le circuit" ("the track")

All joking aside, Le Circuit Mont-Tremblant (LCMT) is my home track. I'm the president of the BMW Club of Quebec and one of the senior instructors.


Very, very few people actually take the esses properly. Even in instructor groups, you'll see ridiculous lines. Most people screw up the entry. To get it right, you need to do corners 1-3 properly. Remember, corners 1-4 at LCMT are essentially one continuous, tightening arc. If your car is set up properly, you have good tires, and you know what you're doing, you should be basically full throttle from corner 1 all the way into the esses. If you can't do that, then your problem is NOT really the esses ... but corners 1-3 (and that's a whole other discussion)!

When you do corner 3 properly you end up more or less in the middle of the track at the turn-in to corner 4 (the right-hand entry to the esses). If you end up all the way on the left edge of the track at turn-in, then you've screwed up corner 3 (which means you've also screwed up 1-2).

When you enter corner 4 in the middle of the track, all you have to do is trail off the brakes and the combination of weight transfer and changing road camber will get your car to rotate amazingly easily. The back will slowly drift all the way around and you'll shoot towards the inside (right-hand side) of corner 4 perfectly lined up with the curbing. You hardly need to use any steering at all. Trailbraking will do the steering for you.

Set up the entry so that you roll up onto the curbing on the right side. Your passenger-side wheels should be completely up on the flat part of the curbing. Do not accelerate into corner 4. If you do so, it will push you into the middle of the track at the entry to 5 and waste valuable room in this critical corner. Once you're on the curbing on the right side of corner 4 and the car is settled, give a quick tap on the brakes and swing the car over towards the left. Climb way up onto the curbing on the left (i.e., the apex of corner 5). You really need to use the curbs on both sides if you want to be able to put down maximum power onto the critical straight between the exit of 5 and the entry to 6. But, if you weren't set up properly for corner 3, the whole sequence is thrown totally off.

The most common reasons why people screw up the esses are:

(1) They screwed up corners 1-3
(2) They entered corner 4 too far to the left
(3) They used too much initial steering input at the entry to 4
(4) They tried to accelerate into 4 rather than keeping a steady throttle
(5) They didn't use the curbs enough ... or at all

Again, the critical thing to remember is that corners 1-4 are all one turn. They should feel seamless. This is one of the beautiful things about LCMT. It really is a "finesse" track. It's highly technical. Once you get that combination of corners down, you'll be literally amazed at your speed down the hill.

Hope this helps.

Emre

are those the 2 left handers?


kinda fast?

No. 4 and 5 are the esses after the downhill.

Emre

didnt know there was esses there....


oh well


i duno

You are a bunch of lucky pups. Running Mont Tremblant is my dream.

WOT from 1-3? I don't have the marbles to do that in a 100whp momentum car much less my 400whp car, good tires/suspension or not!

Even on their posted video (http://www.lecircuit.com/en/track.htm) the momentum car lifts quite a bit.

I typically aim for the rumble strip on the inside of 2 and let the car drift out to set me up for 3 but to your point, I'm too far over, hugging the left upon turn in and I should be closer to the center of the track.

Do you have a video with sound of someone taking 1-3 at WOT? I'd love to see that.

Thanks Emre - I have something new to try next week!

Again, if your car is set up properly, you have good tires, and you know the line, you absolutely can be WOT from the entry to 1 all the way into 3. You do, of course, need to give a moderate lift at the end of the front straight before turning into 1 (no brakes needed, however). And you need to be VERY comfortable with oversteer, as the car will rotate at very high speeds with little room for error.

If you drive an Evo VIII with stock suspension, street tires, and 400 WHP then obviously you won't be able to do so. With my Evo VIII street car (300 WHP), I can do it on R-compounds. With my E30 track car (full race suspension), I can do it even on street tires.


I don't know which video you're referring to. If it involves a certain Ferrari driver, then I'd take it with a huge grain of salt


It's hard to put into words. But most people end up on the outside of the track at the entry to 3 because of how they placed the car after the apex of 2. Immediately after the apex of 2, you need to let the car move dramatically across the track all the way to the left side (even though it feels like you're going to run out of track...you won't). If you do that, the car will actually start to drift sideways (under power) at the exit of 2. It will rotate on it's own. When you hit the compression at the exit, the car will stop rotating at the nose will tuck into the corner, firing you into the apex of 3 like a rocket.


Try to find some videos of BMW CCA Club Racing. All the E30 and E36 M3 guys run full throttle from 1-3. The better E30 M3 drivers don't even lift coming off the back straight!


Will you be at the ACNA/NEQ event? I'll be instructing.

Emre

Emre - Yes I will be! NY license plate MRGUDBAR (MR Good Barometric).
I have been with ACNA since 98 as has my dad (S4 NY license plate AUDI2NV).

My car is setup with WORKS Stage II suspension (I would consider still street) and I'm running on Advan R032H's.

Who would've thought the opportunity for you to show me in person at an Audi event would have occured on this board?!?!

Cool. I'm pretty new to NEQ. Allan has been inviting me to instruct with them for a few years now, but I never had the time until this season. Unfortuntately, my track car has some teething problems following an engine swap. So, I'll be in my street car: Silver 2003 Evo VIII with NJ plates. The car is basically stock and I'll be running street tires...so I'll be a slow-poke


Not bad at all. But take it easy...I don't want you to ball your car up on my account! Corner 1-3 can be blindingly fast, but there's no margin for error. If the car gets too loose, there's little chance of keeping it under control. We don't advise students to run full throttle in 1-3 at our events because it's a bit too risky. But you can still practice the proper line.


See you there

Emre

Well - it'll be my second time there - in HPDE that qualifies me as a pro!

Allan and Wendy are good people - I enjoy watching them drive the ole green nag.