as prerequisite reading.. please browse the https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=259872 thread.

OK.. now.. question.

"what is your attitude on track?"


now this doesnt count for wheel-to-wheel.. i know that after 20 minutes sweating in a hot race car and banging doors that 'reality' can become somewhat skewed.. but for simple open track/ time trial stuff..


do you help as many people as you can or do you want to keep your 'secrets?

do you show courtesy and try and encourage newer/younger drivers or do you try and intimidate them to make your self feel superior?

do you think posting a great time is a success or is it how many cars you can pass in one day?

do you think about the consequences of every move or do you let the other guy worry about it?


i am curious, saddened and discouraged by the current attitude of people tracking their cars lately..

people only post videos of them selves passing slower cars..
people dont accept blame for any situation..
people tracking for 6 months believe and act like they are far superior to the people tracking for 3 months.
people want to intimidate anyone who has been tracking for less time than them.

when i started a bunch of years back i could go up to the best drivers on the west coast and just ask a stupid question and they would answer, ride with me, teach me, and/or let me follow them around the track.. they would be proud of any noob with the right attitude.

pro race winners would be ecstatic for me if i dropped 1 second off my ****ty time because of something they showed me.. and i in return gave them respect and credit for teaching me.

if i needed alignment tips, guys would tell me and i listened.

when i did wheel-to-wheel stuff i was encouraged and 'babied' while in corners until i felt comfortable.

i will help anyone who asks with a good attitude.. but it just seems like lately the whole macho/ricer culture is overtaking the old 'racer guys' culture.

everyone has an attitude.. everyone thinks they are faster than they really are.. no one want to learn.

the MR dude in that other thread thinks 'if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen' should be the prevailing rule and no one but 3 of us are saying he's wrong... and he's been tracking for what?.. a year?

i spent a day at willow when he was there.. giving rides to other evo owners, exchanging tips and running faster laptimes than him in my DD that i wasnt even going to run that day.. but apparently he was too busy with his attitude to remember i was there.. and now im a 'little ignorant internet punk' who he's calling out to thunderhill.. wtf?


now im sure i sound like a whiney old nostalgic wussy here.. and im not talking about the internet.. we talk smack.. we make fun of each other.. but we are always responsible and helpful when needed..

i just got the evo.. i just met barfly and nils.. i make fun of them here.. but would race with them anytime... at redline i even ran to the garage to let nils know they were re-running our session.. and he beat me.. dick..

i know there are people with the right attitude out there.. i just find it odd that no one stands up around here and says so.

so stand up people.. good experiences? bad?.. people you trust?.. people you would never race with?

lets hear it.

 

Thank god I don't live in CA.

I went to my first NASA HPDE last October at Putnam Park in IN and everyone there was cool as can be. I didn't know anything about hwo they run their events or where I was supposed to be and at what time and every single person there was more than helpful and pointed me in the right direction.


Keeping your setup a secret means you think your driving skills are inferior to that of your cometitor, therefore you are relying on your car to make up for your lack of skills. Unless you are actually competing I don't see why you wouldn't help the new guys out. After the ******* has a problem he may change his attitude when he sees that other racers will drop what they are doing and come to his aid, regardless of whether or not they know him.

 

some of what you have mentioned is a result of a fast, cheap, easy to drive car out-of-the-box that passes the newbie owners of high dollar vehicles >$100k that may be more difficult to drive. you go out a few sessions and immediately your confidence grows and you think you are the next schumacher. it's the newer drivers that become cocky and confident, but as the time passes they start realizing how much they really don't know. they also start seeing crashes and spins and sometimes their cars and themselves don't leave in one piece. humility will start to set in. i know the above, because i had a similar transition after 6 months of driving the evo.

 

Unfortunately how people should behave and how the do behave is often quite different. I met some of the nicest and most helpful racers in California (Watts, Oillia, Buckler, Callas, Hamlin, Minter, etc.) -- all of whom were more than happy to help folks learn and discuss setup strategies, help with lines, braking, etc...

Obviously if you are talking racing for money then things would get competitive, but for club racing, TT, and autox it should all be for fun (IMHO)...

 

On track, I flash my brights when approaching slowpokes in an effort to say, "Get out the way, foo', Warrtalon is comin'."

In the pits, I harass and smacktalk the exotics owners and race car owners letting them know I was able to run one fast lap out of 10 that beat all 15 of their race laps while ignoring the fact they were wheel-to-wheel and fighting for position.

During the download sessions, I make sure all the other slowpokes in TT/HPDE4 know that they need to make every effort to get out of my way without me having to slow down so that I can get the fastest lap EVER.

During the lunch break, I chastise the corner workers for not using more blue flags to help get the slowpokes to get out of my way.

 

Maybe it's a socal thing.

We have a little bit of that attitude up here in norcal but not much in the groups I frequent. I usually run with the smaller lower profile open track groups though.

I've done NASA and the like years ago and saw more of what you are talking about, I just stopped going to those.

All the evo guys in advanced that come out to the events up here are very respectful of each other. Most of us know each other and are good buddies. Even in our advanced groups I never ever commit 100% because I really don't know 100% what the other guy is going to do. We are just lapping, not getting trophies, girls, money etc. It's just not worth that .004 a lap for me if it *could* involve swapping paint or worse. I always error on the side of what could go wrong.

I've been doing a bunch of instruction in the last 2 years and I was suprised to find alot of timid drivers but also want to learn. I was expecting alot of hotshoes and me fearing for my life. *knock on wood*.

 

Everyone in Oregon is friendly, but then again Oregon is mostly just CA 10 years ago...guess it's coming...

 

OMG...You are too fast...Do you burn out headlights with all of the flashing you have to do in a 15 min. run?

Do the experienced and faster drivers ever comment on your early apexes or off course adventures?

In all seriousness, I hope you are joking and if not I hope you are extended the same 'politeness' when/if you go for your pro license...

 

i've gotten to the point where i just wont get back in the car with them.. if they wont listen.. why should i risk my life?

 

Too bad PIR doesn't have gas pumps. That would make me friendly too asking people for gas in the pits.

 

Yea, I think that's a good idea. It really isn't worth it. Like I said I don't see alot of that instructing yet but I have been instructing novice groups.

The intermediate groups are the dangerous groups in my opinion. Enough experience to be in intermediate, but think they are the **** because of it but not enough experience when running out of talent when going much faster than novice groups.

 

although I feel the answers are obvious I'll still humor this with a reply since you put so much effort into it.

do you help as many people as you can or do you want to keep your 'secrets?
Honestly, depends if its a competition or just a track day, depends on who it is too.... for the most part I will help anyone that asks for it. I am not the kind of person that just walks around & gives advice etc to people that dont ask for it, i think that sort of behaviour comes across as pompous.

do you show courtesy and try and encourage newer/younger drivers or do you try and intimidate them to make your self feel superior?
Always try to help & be nice at the track.. it is no the place to feel superior, we all know there is always someone who is faster, all relative.
do you think posting a great time is a success or is it how many cars you can pass in one day?
It's about the time you pick up through-out the day or over the year, your own self-progression, us more experienced guys know that passing a car means nothing.

do you think about the consequences of every move or do you let the other guy worry about it?
Gentleman racers always think of the consequences, never assume anyone else knows where you are or where you are going.

i just got the evo.. i just met barfly and nils.. i make fun of them here.. but would race with them anytime... at redline i even ran to the garage to let nils know they were re-running our session.. and he beat me.. dick..
- HA HA! but seriously, I woulda done the same thing if I was in your boat...

so stand up people.. good experiences? bad?.. people you trust?.. people you would never race with?
I think it takes alot to **** me off, im pretty patient & easy going.. BUT.. im a pretty aggressive driver and I do not have patience for drivers that completely forget about faster drivers behind them. The evo was not my first track car.... & having driven much slower cars have taught me that you need to be aware of ALL your surroundings, being on top off traffic means infront & from behind.

Having that said there are a couple of drivers I have scuffled with a bit at the track, all of them very inexperienced, all of them over-driving their cars, all of the completely out-of-control... but were talking like 5 people over the last 6-7 years.

A good example was this dude at teh cal speedway event, it was raining hard, barely visible, he's driving some POS turboed is300 with nopi tuner style paint job... all over the place, I saw the guy almost wreck 3 different guys, I was on his bumper for 3 laps and he refused to step aside.. he was so out of control that I actually complained about him to race control.. first time I have ever done somethign like that.

I try to be patient when newbs completely ignore their rear view mirror, usually give them 2-3 turns to see me & point me by, after that (pending its a open passing group) I will safely pass them. They might think I make a risky pass, but I know that my over taking is as safe as I can make it.


Internet vs. Real Life
I find it interesting that I barely ever see guys with attitudes at the track, yet on forums there is always little scuffles going on... behaviour is drastically different.. communication is alot more open & better in real life.. you can read alot from someones facial expression (such as sarcasm etc).

I do think that the Evo is an easy car to drive & I understand that sometimes it yeilds false confidence in newer drivers... not everyone obviously, but some. What drives me nuts about some newbs is the whole 'part A + part B = a faster car' mentality... like some dude that takes their car to the track once a year & thinks that makes them a fast track dude or something.. & keeps on yapping about how their car is a track car... nah, it just isnt like that.

Nobody in their right mind does this (tracking) thinking its gonna make them money or give them glory, we do this cause its like playtime, its about having fun... so why go to a track and be all full of attitude when its about having fun in the first place.... its about that day, that track, your car & your driving.

pfffffeeewwww... now that was alot of typing.. where is my pulitzer dammnit?


lol

n

 

I don't know if it has anything to do with the area of the country you're in, I would hope not, but...

Thus far at all of the HPDE events that I have been to, people have been VERY curteous and willing to help. When someone breaks something, other people are very will to lend their tools, know how, and whatever they can to help another person out.

Again, if we're talking about an HPDE event here then anyone who is driving on the track and refuses to follow the 'point to allow a pass' rules, or refuses to let other cars pass because their car just HAS to be faster is a danger to other drivers out there and at the very least should be given a stern warning. If they still drive without regard for others safety then they get the boot.

Maybe things would be difference when you get into a more competetive type of event. But even at the auto-x's that I've been to, people are more than willing to talk about what like they're driving, where to start turning in, etc.

It's too bad that there are people out there with an attitude like to the op described.

 

true.. but what a lot of people forget is that as a noob... you are so overwhelmed by everything, you dont see your mirrors.. taking some noob on the inside of a high speed sweeper will only scare them when they finally see you.. they freak out and bad stuff happens.. simple as that.

 

What's a 'noob' doing in an advanced group?