fastkevin

iTrader: (11)

I keep reading competition related threads ,and one thing always stands out. The Evo is heavy, and has a disadvantage with it's competition. I'm new to the Evo, and I have a coupla questions:
What's it's competition, and what does it weigh?
The BMW 3's are heavier stock (so is a 911 nowadays), and I always see them doing quite well, in door to door racing anyway. How do they do well against their competition at their weight, but not the Evo? Heck, why isn't the 3 series the Evo's competition?
Why doesn't the Evo's handling and power overcome it?

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

What is the Evo's competition in what? You have to provide a venue for us to answer that question. 3 series BMWs (primarily E36 M3s) are big competition for us in several SCCA Solo II classes, but that's low speed, tight-turn racing. We don't typically compete with them in track venues.

STIs are pretty much our main competition everywhere, and they weigh about the same, same drivetrain type, and similar power, so no real advantage there.

Vettes/Z06s also, but there we have neither a weight NOR power advantage in most cases.

UT_Evo

iTrader: (5)

MOST references (at least I hope) are in reference to the stock weight on the track... Just in general and not to any competition... At least, that's when I reference the doggish weight of the Evo.

Compared to a ~2500lb S2k the Evo is heavy, since that's the other car I drove on track, I guess that would be its "competition"?

I'm with Warr, this thread makes no sense. The Evo is heavy, yes, but even I had no problem keeping up with much lighter cars on track (Lotus Exige, i.e.) w/ just TBE, tune, JIC coilovers, and R compounds.

I have, however, ridden in a fairly lightweight Evo that was otherwise stock (besides being entirely gutted, and having the boost LOWERED to 17psi) that thing hauled ***...

If you're talking about racing events then usually there are rulings that prevent certain things or allow certain things (of course...) so our "competition" in that class would idealy be every single car in the class, and yes, generally the Evo's power and handling overcomes the weight. BTW standard '08 997 curb weight is 3,075 lbs... Standard Evo IX curb weight is around 3200-3300 lbs... Curb Weight: 3,263 lbs (EV0) 3,219 lbs (EVO RS) 3,285 lbs (EVO MR)... Not too different, but the Porsche certainly isn't heavier stock. But that definitely doesn't matter either, take it from a Porsche fanboy, regular Carreras up to C4Ses don't stand a chance on the track against an Evo. I beat (passed) plenty of 911 TTs and GT3s with the same mods I had listed above, I'm sure Warrtalon has as well, the Evo is a beast on the track.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

And as an aside, but very applicable, there is MUCH to gain in all aspects of performance when we shave off a few hundred pounds. Acceleration, cornering, braking, less wear-and-tear, but I know this is all pretty obvious to most. I have been racing with my Evo being well-modified but nearly full weight with no actual weight reduction, but I think it's time to let go of the "daily driver" mantra. Yes, I will still daily drive it, but I think I'm more interested in shaving as much weight as possible without making the car too annoying. I was 250lbs heavier than Daddio at Nats, and he had another 40whp or so. Add that to his superior setup knowledge and superior driving = pain. At the very least, I can reduce the weight and power differences...

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

Agree with everything stated thus far.

Overall weight just increases wear and tear especially on tires/brakes and that means more $$ to run at the track (road/race, NASA, TT, etc).

It's definitely not a comparison, but look at how much Miata's or Honda Challenge cars weigh!

UT_Evo

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, and from boomn29's example, compare average modded Evo avg speeds through corners to Spec Miatas or Honda Challenge cars. Most often it will be less (the Evo avg speed), I got out cornered by plenty of Spec Miatas, then right out of the corners I'd go past em.

Or hell, go for a ride/drive in a Lotus Elise/Exige or other light weight car. You can FEEL the difference.

DJ Brett B

iTrader: (12)

I know this is but I want to see an Exige with a built 4g63 motor swapped into it... I saw somewhere online that somebody stuffed a K-series Honda motor (N/A) into an Elise and that thing hauled ***!!!

Bueller

iTrader: (1)

Roughly what i was going to say. OP, your question is relative. What competition series are you referring to? Without knowing what youre referring to specifically, we cant help answer your question. If youre making reference to threads where people discuss your basic HPDE, then thats a different story. You noted in your other threads that you have years of racing experience and what not, so it wont be necessary to get into details. So rather simply speaking, at your basic HPDE youre not competing against other people. Drivers/cars are not divided into specific classes. Therefore, its not logical to be comparing yourself to the Porsche that you just ran down, or the S2000 that passed you, or the Vette that you kept up with. An HPDE is nothing more than what it stands for, a high performance driving event. At these events youre going to see cars that are built for specific classes, youre going to see your typical track rat, and youre going to see your typical noob.

Galant VR-4 #34

iTrader: (4)

In scca T2 class where the cars are very close to stock the Evo is superior to the M3 with both cars on stock suspension but aftermarket shocks. The scca saw fit to give the M3 aftermarket springs and swaybars to keep them competitive whereas the evo is on stock springs and sways.
Marty

fastkevin

iTrader: (11)

Yeah IIRC most of the posts I've read were in reference to SCCA classes, but the wording I remember gave me the impression that the Evo's (over) weight was common knowledge. So the M3 actually get's an advantage over the Evo..? Never would have thunk it.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Fastkevin, there's a BIG difference between road racing, time trials, and autocross. Marty is talking about T2, which is wheel-to-wheel road racing in near-stock cars. Very few people compete at that level and only a handful of Evos overall. I think most of what you've been reading is related to autocross, which is much different in terms of competition.

fastkevin

iTrader: (11)

I was looking for exactly what Marty gave. He competes in "X" class, "Y" cars are his competiton, and the "Y"'s get a performance equalizer, meaning the Evo's weight doesn't come in to play in his class.

Matt2.8NJ

iTrader: (7)

Mmmm, I might not say that. Much of the SCCA is politics based, so you still can't be sure what the real "truth" is about a particular vehicle's speed.

For reference, see the Solstice win this year at the runoffs and it's performance "equalizers".

GTLocke13

iTrader: (1)

Hey, they've apologized to Mazda. Let's not re-open old wounds.

SCCA politics can be pretty brutal. I'm reminded of a certain thread on sccaforums that went 27 pages about getting a certain car kicked out of BSP because the corvette couldn't win anymore...

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Um, ok, but weight is a big factor in most other venues.