NASA TTB or TTA?
I don't think you understand the concept of taking points. In NASA you take points for something that gives you an advantage. Lower weight or weight loss on the car is an advantage. Adding weight doesn't give you points as you seem to think. If you take a look at the rules, you have to take more points for the weight you take off the car.
If you compare it your competitors that are driving almost identical heavier EVOs, you are at a slight advantage. Since your RS is LIGHTER "technically" you should be taking points for having that advantage. The RS doesn't get assessed points for being lighter than the GSRs, it just happens to be classed in the same level due to NASA's classing structure. Since they don't consider the difference in weight be be any significant advantage. Thus, consider yourself lucky.
If you compare it your competitors that are driving almost identical heavier EVOs, you are at a slight advantage. Since your RS is LIGHTER "technically" you should be taking points for having that advantage. The RS doesn't get assessed points for being lighter than the GSRs, it just happens to be classed in the same level due to NASA's classing structure. Since they don't consider the difference in weight be be any significant advantage. Thus, consider yourself lucky.
i think you are still missing the point of the inequality between the years vs. models listed.
please explain the difference between the 06 model year in which the rs and regular ix class exactly the same except the lighter curb weight of the rs, and that of the 03-05 years where they don't list an rs model at all so you have to use the curb weight of the standard viii?
here's the classes in question...
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII ('04-'05)(AWD) TTC** 3263
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII MR ('05)(AWD) TTB 3263
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX ('06)(AWD) TTB 3263
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo MR ('06)(AWD) TTB* 3285
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo RS ('06)(AWD) TTB 3219
so if the rs is the same as a standard ix in 06 but just with less weight, what would have changed previously? i just don't see how the relationships change between models for the specific years.
Last edited by smack_evo; Jul 7, 2008 at 12:57 PM.
Smack_evo: about not having ABS in the RS model. Really good drivers can extract more braking performance by threshold braking a non-ABS car than an ABS equipped car. So while ABS is a great tool from the novice driver, more performance can be extracted in a car without ABS in the hands of a skilled driver. So its advantage or disadvantage can be argued both ways.
are you going to nationals this year? i'm trying to put something together right now. still working on getting the car out from california.
i'll tell you what, if i see you out there, you can pull your abs fuse and i'll pray for rain
Because the car is incorrectly classed, he either has to A: add ballast or B: take points for weight reduction. If he did neither he would fail a post race trip across the scales for being under weight.
My apologies, I see the point you guys are trying to make. Are you guys going about the alternative weighing method? If there is fuel in the car the weight should be higher and you can add the weight of the driver to that. Is there anything done to account for those factors? I've also heard the curb weights (empty) of the EVOs being slightly lower than factory specs. Can anyone confirm that?
Sorry I'm not going to Nats (I wish). Heck I can't even afford to do the regular HPDEs anymore (luxury service). And in any case I'm not a good enough driver to drive without ABS
ABS is my dear friend
Sorry I'm not going to Nats (I wish). Heck I can't even afford to do the regular HPDEs anymore (luxury service). And in any case I'm not a good enough driver to drive without ABS
ABS is my dear friend
Last edited by DaWorstPlaya; Jul 7, 2008 at 03:39 PM.
the car is not incorrectly classed, it actually doesn't have a class listed at all. so greg g. is making him come in as a standard viii instead of just making the proper class as he did for the 06 cars.
this has been the argument all along, why does an 05 rs have to take points for weight(+44lbs) that an 06 rs doesn't have to solely based on the curb weights being incorrect.
looking at the alt weight numbers this is costing an extra 3 points. that's equal to the jump from r888's to hoosiers. easily good for 2 seconds on a 2 minute circuit. even more if you want to run a6 compounds and get the 1-2 hot laps in before the tires go off.
just looking for a bit more equality that's all.
Last edited by smack_evo; Jul 7, 2008 at 06:15 PM.
sean i ll prolly join you in TTS after this year is over, i want to run modifed with redline, it really is a lot of fun out there and my lil ol TTA car wont be competitive.
lose another 200lbs, 450whp and learn how to drive i shouldnt do to bad? right? (-:
lose another 200lbs, 450whp and learn how to drive i shouldnt do to bad? right? (-:
wow kids, it's really not this tough.
the car is not incorrectly classed, it actually doesn't have a class listed at all. so greg g. is making him come in as a standard viii instead of just making the proper class as he did for the 06 cars.
this has been the argument all along, why does an 05 rs have to take points for weight(+44lbs) that an 06 rs doesn't have to solely based on the curb weights being incorrect.
looking at the alt weight numbers this is costing an extra 3 points. that's equal to the jump from r888's to hoosiers. easily good for 2 seconds on a 2 minute circuit. even more if you want to run a6 compounds and get the 1-2 hot laps in before the tires go off.
just looking for a bit more equality that's all.
the car is not incorrectly classed, it actually doesn't have a class listed at all. so greg g. is making him come in as a standard viii instead of just making the proper class as he did for the 06 cars.
this has been the argument all along, why does an 05 rs have to take points for weight(+44lbs) that an 06 rs doesn't have to solely based on the curb weights being incorrect.
looking at the alt weight numbers this is costing an extra 3 points. that's equal to the jump from r888's to hoosiers. easily good for 2 seconds on a 2 minute circuit. even more if you want to run a6 compounds and get the 1-2 hot laps in before the tires go off.
just looking for a bit more equality that's all.
Well put... I understood the first time but failed to see what wasnt being understood! LOL
Yea I was going to try and compete in TT-A in the midwest region but i would have to de-mod and actually spend more money at this point. So i will hopefully be making my first TT-S event the 19th and 20th at the Autobahn in joliet.
as you know i'm at 3375lbs and 350whp on a mustang. according to greg g. if you use a mustang you need to add 10% to your whp numbers which puts the car right at the upper limit of the class.
i'd like to run redline events as well but the car would be so uncompetitive in it's current configuration, since there is no power cap in the rules for the street class.
that's why i'm considering going to ttu for next season to get the car to fit into both series fairly well. just not sure how comfortable i feel about having that much power on tap with the safety equipment i have currently in the car. i may finally have to find a new daily driver
Last edited by smack_evo; Jul 7, 2008 at 11:58 PM.
I may just swap turbos between Nasa and redline. Run Nasa low weight with a small turbo and redline low weight + power.
as my car sits now its light ... i learned in utah theres still another 100lbs to lose (-:
I ll run nasa for fun with everyone, Bryan is going to run next year as well.
as my car sits now its light ... i learned in utah theres still another 100lbs to lose (-:
I ll run nasa for fun with everyone, Bryan is going to run next year as well.
Last edited by jbfoco; Jul 8, 2008 at 12:29 AM.
I may just swap turbos between Nasa and redline. Run Nasa low weight with a small turbo and redline low weight + power.
as my car sits now its light ... i learned in utah theres still another 100lbs to lose (-:
I ll run nasa for fun with everyone, Bryan is going to run next year as well.
as my car sits now its light ... i learned in utah theres still another 100lbs to lose (-:
I ll run nasa for fun with everyone, Bryan is going to run next year as well.
i'll believe it when i see it i'm thinking the same thing with the turbo swap idea. called gst up this morning to grab a red for me.
hopefully there will still be some in stock by the time greg gets a chance to call fp.
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Yeah I'm going to have to call photoshop too.
As for turbo swaps, just get two manifolds and swap between events. You can run the green and stay in TTS and then when running redline, swap the manifold and turbo together. You might have to invest into some tricky hardware that would make life a lot easier for switching setups. Redline doesn't run nearly as much as NASA, no use in completely changing everything just to run 3-5 events in the year. That or you must really want to run against the "L" in TTU.
As for turbo swaps, just get two manifolds and swap between events. You can run the green and stay in TTS and then when running redline, swap the manifold and turbo together. You might have to invest into some tricky hardware that would make life a lot easier for switching setups. Redline doesn't run nearly as much as NASA, no use in completely changing everything just to run 3-5 events in the year. That or you must really want to run against the "L" in TTU.
Base classes and minimum weights are as follows:
Evo 03-05. . . TTC**. 3263
Evo 05 MR. . . TTB. . . 3263
Evo 06. . . . . .TTB. . . 3263
Evo 06 RS. . . TTB. . . 3219
Evo 06 MR. . . TTB*. . 3285
Sti 04-07. .. . .TTB. . . 3260
* denotes +7
** denotes +14
On top of your base classing you can add modifications worth specific points. Every 20 pts bumps you up a class. Therefore 0-19 points keeps you in the same class. As you can see, certain cars are handicapped points, like the 06 MR gets based with a +7 as it's deemed 'better' from the factory.
I personally have an 06 Evo IX GSR - so I'm based in TTB and can mod up to 19 points to stay legal in class. If I wanted to do more, I could mod up to 39 points and compete in TTA.
Modifications are going to be the determining factor. As building a car specifically for a certain class would always garner better results than adapting a car to the class. This year is my first year with NASA, and I came in over 30 points, so I automatically slotted into TTA. I am debating where the car will be more competitive. Ideas? I'll post up some mod/points ideas I came up with in a bit.
Evo 03-05. . . TTC**. 3263
Evo 05 MR. . . TTB. . . 3263
Evo 06. . . . . .TTB. . . 3263
Evo 06 RS. . . TTB. . . 3219
Evo 06 MR. . . TTB*. . 3285
Sti 04-07. .. . .TTB. . . 3260
* denotes +7
** denotes +14
On top of your base classing you can add modifications worth specific points. Every 20 pts bumps you up a class. Therefore 0-19 points keeps you in the same class. As you can see, certain cars are handicapped points, like the 06 MR gets based with a +7 as it's deemed 'better' from the factory.
I personally have an 06 Evo IX GSR - so I'm based in TTB and can mod up to 19 points to stay legal in class. If I wanted to do more, I could mod up to 39 points and compete in TTA.
Modifications are going to be the determining factor. As building a car specifically for a certain class would always garner better results than adapting a car to the class. This year is my first year with NASA, and I came in over 30 points, so I automatically slotted into TTA. I am debating where the car will be more competitive. Ideas? I'll post up some mod/points ideas I came up with in a bit.
From the NASA-TT rules PDF.
FORCED INDUCTION VEHICLES will add an additional five (+5) points to the total number of modification points to determine the final competition class.