that brake package is the way to go.

if you want the bare minimum, get the ST43 and some kind of brake ducting.

note on the brake ducting, make sure you test the full range of wheel motion *multiple* times, even in a good installation, expect the hose portion to be a wearable item

 

That kind of glowing on the disks is exactly why I went BBK - I was kindof infamous here for my glowing discs on track evenings.

Sure it looks cool or whatever but all I see when the discs are glowing like that is extremely high temps - likely to result in heat cracks on the rotors, cooked fluid, tough on pads etc.

You could do like one guy mentioned and go for more of an endurance pad on a 2 piece rotor setup (I used Performance Friction) with the OEM calipers and ducting but how effective it will be depends on the circuit and your driving style. You may well be tempted to work the brakes harder with less grappy pads which will put you back to square one.

For longer circuits with more open, sweeping corners and only a few tight ones you might well get away with a less extreme brake setup because you don't need to stop as hard and the higher speeds will let your rotors cool.

But if you tend to track on shorter circuits like I do, with lots of tight corners (STOP GO STOP GO type of circuit), you WILL enjoy having a BBK unless you want to take things at a gentle pace

 

I didn't read what everyone else said...but the way to go is with the Stasis big brake kit.
A true monoblock design and purpose built for the sole intention of road racing. Pads are up to you, I like Ferodo. But make sure you pick a pad that fits your needs. If you run a track pad, then it should ONLY be driven on the track because it will eat your rotors. And run a quality fluid like the endless 650. Hope this helps.

 

I would recomend Racing Brake, They have a great BBK..will not fit 17" wheels. I used their one piece slotted rotors front and rear(stock size) for the entire T.T. season (8 events) and the Autocross season (8 events) plus 5 or 6 extra trackdays and I have plenty of front rotor left and the backs look nearly new. I also run the race pads from R.B. ET800 and I don't change them for street driving. Some of you here have seen me at the tracks and have seen the pace I can run and have commented about the smoking brakes...I really do use them hard !! And I have had ZERO issues..no cracks..no warping..no fade. I have so far gone thru about 4 sets of front pads and 2 sets of rears this year including street miles and the pads have held up really well and are extremely consistant. They do dust alot but only one set had a really mild low speed squeek! Please feel free to PM me for additional comments and pricing. Pete

 

You're missing my point....I was showing how they can take abuse. My setup can take the heat and still be very efficient...lap after lap. Obviously the biggest factor is driving style, but a properly driven car with that setup can do wonders at a huge discount over a BBK. The BBK's do have their place, and work excellent, but there are alternatives out there that can be very effective.

 

Thanks Blacktrack, that's a nice link to the setup. If I didn't already have a majority of that setup, I think it'd be a great option to have. I'm one that likes packages that are tested and work all together.

I was going to throw in my .02, but the above package has everything I'd recommend - save for some different brands perhaps. A BBK is a BBK; but there are several of us TTA/TTS/TA guys out there in the 300-400whp range that are running the stock brembos. Put me in that group as well.

I, for one, did get my brakes very hot last last weekend. This was at the end of a 20min session, with a 200lb passenger. I'm running ti shims, upgraded rotors, motul, cooling ducts, DTC60's, SS lines - the works.

 

as you going deeper in the racing your car will be lighter eventually. I dont see any real needs to change the stock brembos on the 17' wheels.
You need to change for lighter rotors and better ones, break lines, break fluid and the get the break cooling kit./hoses etc/
And you will be set.
oh and a good tires.
As soon as you are approaching the 3000 lbs the BBK will not stop you sooner. just will take the abuse longer period of time btter. But when you will race to bumper to bumper?

 

Thats what i have been trying to say the whole time! You dont have to spend between $3,000 and $4,000 to stop effectively and consistent. My set up is very similar to blacktracks, I run Girodisk two piece, ss lines, motul RBF, Performance friction 01 front, and HAWK dtc-60 rear, ad the AMS brake cooling kit. And it is perfect and i drive my car fairly hard as does blacktrack!

Im not 100% sure, but im guessing replacement costs of rotors and pads for those BBK are not cheap either.

i guess it all comes down to what you want, and what you are willing to pay..

 

You will never get the stock Brembo's to last if you track the car hard w/ tire etc.

Simple fact - too fast/not enough heat mass. STi's are the same. So we won't even discuss better factory stuff. But in case you were wondering - there are much more durable/long lasting pads than carbotechs or pagid yellows (endurance pads - NOT fast track pads)



I know for a fact that you won't buy the kit from me - so here goes.

First - in GENERAL - # of pistons is not so relevent. What is required is a stiff calipers w/ properly sized pistons to maintain or improve brake bias. Enough mass to 'hold' the heat as it gets created, and a good quality part that can take it for at least awhile.

Rotora/D2/Racingbrake/Ksport/....there are a Zillion of them. They are CHEAP KNOCKOFFS. END OF STORY. You want to spend $2k to put that untested and in many cases poorly designed crap on your race car - go ahead. I WORKED for a brand like that for 3 years - I know what (does not) goes into those parts.

Since you are staying w/ 17's you can only increase your component life so much.

In 13" kits - you have Stoptech at $2k - then all the others (Brembo/AP/Alcon etc) up at about $3k. The difference? Stoptech makes a very good rotor sourced from Italy. The caliper is arguably copied - but copied well with some unique features. I do believe it's produced 'overseaes' - but they have at least done their homework. Parts are reasonable as well. Ideally - I'd want an even thicker rotor and the pad shape is a bit small - but overall not terrible.

I would not advise the Brembo 14" kit. Pads are nearly IMPOSSIBLE to source and $texas - I believe it's the same shape as used on the new GTR.

As far as JDM - I have not seen convincing evidence that they bias correctly leaving stopping distance on the table.

I'll be clear further - I have -never- sold an EVO BBK - dunno why as I sell/distribute loads of pads and rotors etc. I am still in fairy tale land to think someone pays near list price I guess.

I would also consider harassing PFC to get their BBK program off the ground. They are trying to launch a BBK for quite a few cars - EVO included. They are obnoxious to deal with but they know their isht.

I went through the same ordeal w/ my STi. I elected to go Stoptech as I thought the overall value was high in comparison. If PFC had of been ready - I would have likely went that route.

gl

 

theshadow is probably the closest to right in here btw

stop/go/stop/go - the hardest track type to get brakes to last.


Glowing brakes = overworked everything meaning constant parts buying

Lightweight 2 piece rotors = FAIL What part of "The brakes are a heat sink - so surface area and mass need to be INCREASED not decreased" don't people understand?

The word sink presents a perfect analogy. If you want to be able to pour more water in the sink at a faster rate - you make the sink BIGGER w/ a BIGGER drain.

It's rocket science I tell ya....

 

Racing Brake is a cheap knock off ???? How do you figure that???? They make their own stuff at their own foundry...please explain yourself Pete

 

good answers. That's sound engineering right there. Listen to the man, he knows his crap.

 

I have PFC 2pc rotors, Forge ducts, DTC70s, and stock calipers. The limiting factor for me is pad wear/cost. I've never had the brakes fade, but the only time I drive 100% for every straight lap after lap is when I'm against the clock in competition. You can save yourself a lot of money and frustration by not wringing the car out on every straightaway in practice, at least if the use of the car is only time trials and open track days.

 

EVOBrakes:

Nice analysis. Thank you. I'm not sure you've given me direction on where to go (or, maybe you did).

Since I can't change out my 17" wheel sets, I'm limited to about a 13-ish inch rotor. A 14" setup is a non-issue with my 17" Enkei NT03+M wheels. Won't fit.

Did you say the 2-pc is NOT the way to go? I understand the heat sink concept, but what about expansion and contraction with the 2-pc vs. 1-pc?


Regarding the Stoptech BBK, it is true that the surface area of the ST40 pad is less than that of the Brembo style pad. Would I not be getting less braking but spending $2K by going that route? Please explain. The others at $3K are not an option for me.

 

Not trying to start an argument here - I think both the 'pimp out the stock Brembos' school have a point as well as the 'BBK or bust' people.

How your brakes last mostly depends on the way you drive and the environment you run in. People have different driving styles and drive on different circuits etc.

Brakes are simply mechanical devices that convert kinetic energy into heat. Therefore, the bigger the better to absorb heat as well as dissipate it. Otherwise it's a matter of managing the loads against the capacity of your braking system to handle heat.

And of course everyone needs to balance braking capacity against the desire for less weight, better handling etc.

To each their own.

I understand the 'lightweight' way of thinking, but I also tried it and it didn't work so well for me beyond a point.

My first track oriented brake setup was Performance Friction Dynamic Drive 2 piece rotors + PFC-11 and PFC 01 pads + Motul RBF600 fluid + AMS ducting + Ralliart Brake cooling guides + AMS titanium brake caliper backing plates (if anyone can suggest a better stock caliper setup please feel free). DID work pretty damn great on track - up to a point.

Using this setup I had the following issues:
Cracked rotors (PFC 2 piece rotors replaced twice in 6 months)
Glazed pads (happened quite frequently - tried many brands and types - PFCs, Ferodo 2500s and 3000s, EBC Reds and Yellows - Ferodo 3000s were the best but terrible wear),
Fluid boiling after a single track session (and totally losing the brakes after 15 minutes).
Lots of brake vibration/brake shimmy etc.

Over the past year I've tracked at least once or twice a month + AutoX at least once a month so I suppose you could say I'm a heavy user. Again, you COULD do fine with such a setup if you only track once awhile or drive moderately but IMHO there's a limit, simple as that.

Bottom line - upgrading to an Endless 6 pot front BBK wasn't cheap, and I hated to not be able to run 17 inch rims anymore (I had really nice Enkei RPF1s that I had to sell) but it was definitely a good investment - simply NO MORE PROBLEMS at all.

I can track just like before - 3x20 minutes at 8 or 9/10ths - and all I have to do is change my brake fluid every track session (if I want to - don't HAVE to) or at least every other track session. I keep separate track pads and street pads as well, but besides that no biggie at all. The rotors are in perfect shape and the pads last longer too.

Better yet, I just drive however I want whenever I want and don't worry about brakes. I don't have to worry about nursing a system that's working at it's very limits. They're always there, always strong, very reliable.

Just my opinion though - not trying to sell anything.