2 piece rotors allow the rotor surface to expand and contract under heat independently of the centre, saving the rotors from warping and cracking as easily.

Also, pad surface isn't neccessarily the most important thing - the ability of the brake rotor to absorb and burn off heat is the most important thing.

If you can't afford the Stoptech kit right now or have doubts then you could just try 2 piece rotors, better pads, good fluid and some ducting with the stock calipers...then take it easy while you save up for that Alcon kit.

 

why did this combo stop working for you? more HP? stickier tires..?

 

All, I wasn't trying to start a pissing contest either..I was just trying to clear up some misinformation I saw here. I am by no means a brake expert!!! I was only relaying the impression I got by using a product that is out there for us all to use. I went to my log books and checked the actual track miles I ran this season..I did not count the Autocross series or any street miles I drove to and from the tracks or the general driving around,and like I said before I do NOT change pads or the rotors for the street. The total track miles this season so far with one T.T. left to run is 1325 miles on one set of rotors and a few sets of pads. Again I was not trying to annoy people here..just giving my opinion...for what it's worth. Pete

 

It worked up until the point I was exposing the system to repeated trackdays ona regular basis. What doesn't help my in my case is the following:

I found that my discs were glowing all the time, my pads were glazing over each track session and of course my brake fluid was boiling by the end of the first out of 3 sessions each time. Slight cracks in the rotors would develop pretty quicky, ending up with severely cracked rotors by the time 3 or so track evenings has been done. What this basically meant was that brakes were always a concern in one way or another - lots owf work maintining everything while always encountering degraded performance at the end of each session. Put it another way - I just got tired of runing the stock braking system at its limit all the time (resulting in "brownbos" and then "blackbos"), with constant reliability issues (losing brakes early during sessions etc.). and became leery of the constant outflow of cash on braking related stuff.

BBK fixed everything right up. Utter reliably and more control over the duration of the entire track evening, nrakes never give up (yes they're "Endless" - pun intended). The BBK setup simply lets me drive much more precisely and more consistently. Costly - but since I upgraded things have been much better maintenance-wise as well.

That's just my own experience - all in good fun!

 

AP brakes are awesome im my experience.

 

+1

And you can pick whatever piston/caliper/rotor combo you want to tweak the brake bias. I had this all planned out but the pound/dollar conversion is wacko.

The point is, I believe both the front-only Stoptech and the Alcon kits are too forward biased. Most Evo owners don't notice because EBD fixes it but if you have an RS then you'll notice.

 

There are always brake threads with no m ention of braking technique...

 

Braking technique depends on alot of stuff - there is no ONE right way except to learn from a pro and gain your own experience

This the Endless BBK on my car - absolutely satisfied with it but I'd recommend AP or Alcon because pads and spares are easier to source and cheaper.

Note that my rotors and calipers are looking pretty good with 8 trackdays on 'em and considering that I drive like a maniac on track (I threshold brake, always late and hard and often trailbrake a little into the tighter corners as well)

Sorry for all the lame notations - they relate to fitting 285s on the car but this is the only decent pic of the BBK I have :P

 

Definately, but there are a ton of people who brake incorrectly. It depends on how you begin to apply the brakes more than how you get off them, and what you do inbetween those two points.

 

care to elaborate on your technique?

 

Hmm I'm no expert but the rule of thumb I follow is to try to use them as little as possible. That means getting on them decently late and firm, right p to the ABS threshold (but not pounding them), keeping the braking force completely even while on the pedal and then getting off them at the exact moment I turn in towards the apex. I do all the fancy heel and toe stuff while on the brakes so that I'm in gear and ready to GO as soon as I'm about to enter the corner.

Some instructors I've ridden with are SUPER aggressive on the brakes...ridiculously late braking and a GOOOO, POUND, GOOO method.

Interested to hear how everyone else does it.

 

I really wonder why the stock Evo brakes are so bad? However Garage Trial Totori, and Cyber Evo is using the stock Brembo's.

 

Realistically, a full weight street car running hard for 20-25 minutes at a time is harder on brakes than a lightened race car doing only a handful of hot laps at a time in a time attack.

 

This is fairly accurate especially when most people don't brake hard enough and therefore end up with lots of material build-up on the rotors as a result. Their impression is that they "don't have enough brakes and they warp easily so I need to spend big bucks and upgrade".

You can go a long way on the stock calipers with just pads, fluid, SS lines, larger 2 piece rotors and some ducting.... + proper technique which was actually well described by a prior poster as a "pop" or "bang" on the peddle. What is too hard? it depends on the car (grip level, CG, wheelbase, damper package, ABS sensitivity etc.), on the EVO it is actually all pretty damn good for a sedan (especially the ABS which is exceptional in it's ability to allow threshold braking without intervention) so you can pop on the pedal pretty darn (shockingly for the uninitiated) hard without immediately tripping the ABS (that is too hard). Then maintain that level until turn in where you bleed off (at a rate that keeps the car pointing, turning efficiently... as you might surmise that varies with the car and corner). Repeat

If you car has downforce (only a handful of very serious EVO's in the world actually do) you will have to bleed off brake pressure as your speed and aero diminish (degressive braking technique).

You will be amazed how the harder (initial) braking helps your brake life and brake consistency and allows you to go much much deeper into the brake zone (take small steps please!) with the corresponding decrease in lap time that comes along with it

You can run 30 minute session like this as long as you car has less than a 35r and no more than 3500lbs wet with driver (from my experience in various EVOs) with a decent warm up and cool down meaning 20 minutes of actual flat out driving. You results may vary depending on ambient temperature, skill level and track configuration (Alan Wilson designed "stop and go" tracks are hard as hell on brakes and not much fun to drive).

I recommend:

PFC 01 pads
PFC 2 piece rotors or Giro Disc (front and rear if possible)
Castrol SRX fluid (expensive but worth every penny)
SS lines
AMS duct kit

I think AMS carries all this stuff

 

^^^^^ like you know anything about braking . Look at yourself in this picture. Those used to be nice pretty brakes .