STR S2000 guy coming over to the 'Dark Side'
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 154
From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
I'm extremely curious since Cosmo is 40 miles from my house and i was going to check them out. They have EVOs all over the place there so i'd definitely like to hear what you have to say. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNw-atYroP4
2) The review thread is here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/so...ickory-nc.html
My review specifically
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/9393047-post28.html
If you end up having to go this route - desperation, whatever - make sure you get the car checked out somewhere else first.
Evolving Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 441
Likes: 33
From: Seattle
so, basically everything else depends on how dedicated of an autocross car you plan on building... if you're all about STU, then yeah, the IX SE, or GSR... if you're unsure or don't really care that much.. any of them will fill the bill! (maybe avoid the SSL/sunroofed ones). Go find an unmolested one, in good shape and never look back.
STU (or below), I'd stick with an ABS equipped IX (non SSL)
> STU... get the best EVO you can find/afford!
here's my thread about shopping (RS or not)
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mo...rs-not-rs.html
also, the ACD in the IX is fine but I'd probably be just as happy in an VIII with their LSD/iffs in all three locations.. but then you don't get ABS (in STU anyways).
regrads, and good luck
Doug
Evolving Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 441
Likes: 33
From: Seattle
If you can live without ABS.. here you go:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/2610092474.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/2610092474.html
24K and no mods
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
I'd like to thank everyone for their replies.
Just to go off on a tangent, since i don't even have a car yet. I have a coilover question.
First of all, there's something about autocrossers and JDM components that are the automotive equivalent of Superman and Kryptonite that i don't quite get.....
Back when i was prepping the S2000 for STR, i was kicking around ideas like buying and revalving a set of Koni Yellows, then i had a chance to score a slightly used set of TC Klines, but due to certain people being douchebags, that deal fell thru. I was also being pitched the AST (5100? 5200? or something to that effect) by a reputable performance shop....
But my co-driver met a fellow CR auto-xer up in NJ that was rolling on HKS Hippermax III sport coilovers. The spring rates were in line with what we wanted to run: 13kg -f (726in/lb) / 11kg -r (615in/lb). He said he liked them, so i went onto the S2ki forums and there was a lengthy thread about them. Track tested, consumer tested, good reviews....
So i found a guy on the forums who was selling an unused set still in the box for a great price so i jumped on them. Bolted them on and the long and short of it is: the car is awesome - and not only would i endorse them, but if i were modding another s2000, i'd probably buy them again.
Afterward, i ran into one of the guys from the performance shop at an event, and he asked me what was up with my suspension and if i was still considering he AST's. When i told him that i bought HKS, he didn't say anything, he just kind of stared at me, and i think he threw up in his mouth a little bit....
As it turns out, they make them for EVO's as well.
Anybody have these on their EVO and what's your opinion of them?
The concern I have is the spring rate on these coilovers:
10 kg - f / 8 kg - r (560in/lb - 447 in/lb)
They seem to me to be a bit soft for a 3,000 lb car on an auto-x course.
The other thing is, being AWD (= understeer) the rates seem counter-intuitive to helping the car turn better. I read the entire 2011 STU thread here. Not a lot of info about spring rates, but one guy is running 600/700 with a bigger rear bar, which is a set-up that makes more sense (less front spring/bar + more rear spring/rear bar = more oversteer).
I can understand possibly that HKS sets spring rates in accordance with the static weight distribution, which i believe is 60%/40% on the EVO. The car is front end heavy so the static pre-loads on the springs i suppose are in line with having to support the weight.
But that aside, what's the EVO autocrosser's take on the HKS suspension, as well as spring rate / ARB in general?
Thanks.
Just to go off on a tangent, since i don't even have a car yet. I have a coilover question.
First of all, there's something about autocrossers and JDM components that are the automotive equivalent of Superman and Kryptonite that i don't quite get.....
Back when i was prepping the S2000 for STR, i was kicking around ideas like buying and revalving a set of Koni Yellows, then i had a chance to score a slightly used set of TC Klines, but due to certain people being douchebags, that deal fell thru. I was also being pitched the AST (5100? 5200? or something to that effect) by a reputable performance shop....
But my co-driver met a fellow CR auto-xer up in NJ that was rolling on HKS Hippermax III sport coilovers. The spring rates were in line with what we wanted to run: 13kg -f (726in/lb) / 11kg -r (615in/lb). He said he liked them, so i went onto the S2ki forums and there was a lengthy thread about them. Track tested, consumer tested, good reviews....
So i found a guy on the forums who was selling an unused set still in the box for a great price so i jumped on them. Bolted them on and the long and short of it is: the car is awesome - and not only would i endorse them, but if i were modding another s2000, i'd probably buy them again.
Afterward, i ran into one of the guys from the performance shop at an event, and he asked me what was up with my suspension and if i was still considering he AST's. When i told him that i bought HKS, he didn't say anything, he just kind of stared at me, and i think he threw up in his mouth a little bit....
As it turns out, they make them for EVO's as well.
Anybody have these on their EVO and what's your opinion of them?
The concern I have is the spring rate on these coilovers:
10 kg - f / 8 kg - r (560in/lb - 447 in/lb)
They seem to me to be a bit soft for a 3,000 lb car on an auto-x course.
The other thing is, being AWD (= understeer) the rates seem counter-intuitive to helping the car turn better. I read the entire 2011 STU thread here. Not a lot of info about spring rates, but one guy is running 600/700 with a bigger rear bar, which is a set-up that makes more sense (less front spring/bar + more rear spring/rear bar = more oversteer).
I can understand possibly that HKS sets spring rates in accordance with the static weight distribution, which i believe is 60%/40% on the EVO. The car is front end heavy so the static pre-loads on the springs i suppose are in line with having to support the weight.
But that aside, what's the EVO autocrosser's take on the HKS suspension, as well as spring rate / ARB in general?
Thanks.
But for a track car on super sticky tires, the stiffer spring rates work well.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,733
Likes: 154
From: Why do they always call the Evo the Dark Side?
...As it turns out, they make them for EVO's as well.
Anybody have these on their EVO and what's your opinion of them?
The concern I have is the spring rate on these coilovers:
10 kg - f / 8 kg - r (560in/lb - 447 in/lb)
They seem to me to be a bit soft for a 3,000 lb car on an auto-x course.
The other thing is, being AWD (= understeer) the rates seem counter-intuitive to helping the car turn better. I read the entire 2011 STU thread here. Not a lot of info about spring rates, but one guy is running 600/700 with a bigger rear bar, which is a set-up that makes more sense (less front spring/bar + more rear spring/rear bar = more oversteer).
I can understand possibly that HKS sets spring rates in accordance with the static weight distribution, which i believe is 60%/40% on the EVO. The car is front end heavy so the static pre-loads on the springs i suppose are in line with having to support the weight.
But that aside, what's the EVO autocrosser's take on the HKS suspension, as well as spring rate / ARB in general?
Anybody have these on their EVO and what's your opinion of them?
The concern I have is the spring rate on these coilovers:
10 kg - f / 8 kg - r (560in/lb - 447 in/lb)
They seem to me to be a bit soft for a 3,000 lb car on an auto-x course.
The other thing is, being AWD (= understeer) the rates seem counter-intuitive to helping the car turn better. I read the entire 2011 STU thread here. Not a lot of info about spring rates, but one guy is running 600/700 with a bigger rear bar, which is a set-up that makes more sense (less front spring/bar + more rear spring/rear bar = more oversteer).
I can understand possibly that HKS sets spring rates in accordance with the static weight distribution, which i believe is 60%/40% on the EVO. The car is front end heavy so the static pre-loads on the springs i suppose are in line with having to support the weight.
But that aside, what's the EVO autocrosser's take on the HKS suspension, as well as spring rate / ARB in general?
Remember that the Evo is struts in the front, multilink in the rear, so the rear motion ratio is lower and you have to up the spring rates to compensate. Even at 600/800 and -3/-1 I still feel the car is faster with a slightly bigger rear bar. I'm in my first year of figuring this crap out but it seems to match what other people have said in the STU threads.
Having been badly burned by JIC I swore I wouldn't buy any suspension product from Japan again (ride quality, rebuildability, customer service, etc all seem generally worse) and I haven't really regretted that. HKS is pulling out of the US so that would be a strike against them. I do like supporting companies that actually care about autocross.
About the balance of the STi vs. Evo... Stock for stock the STi has less on throttle understeer due to the 35/65 center diff vs. the evo's 50/50. I've driven an STU prepped STi and there's plenty of throttle rotation. The evo can be made to rotate better on throttle by rebuilding the rear diff, but the extent of rebuild depends on the class you are prepping for. In STU, you can do a factory rebuild and tighten the shims. In SM, I have the full rebuild that brings all the friction discs into play. All wheel drifts on Hoosiers is where it's at, IMO 
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
Reviving the thread, going to the bank to apply for the loan, gonna borrow $12k then I have $5k to put down so at $17k I'm on a budget. Gotta be an '05 or newer for the bank to lend.
Plan has changed, I already have a great auto-x car (my S2000) and decided I don't need another one. The EVO is gonna be for moderate street use and track days. Possibly with the intention of running NASA TT in the future.
With that in mind, I'm leaning toward the 05-06 GSR or RS. The 05's in these trims seem to be the cheapest.
I did some research on the NASA forums, heard the MR gets murdered in TT because of the upgraded Bilsteins and the Vortex generator. And even though I'll probably end up on Ohlin's road and tracks or most likely AST 5100's (I like the inverted setup) with NASA, even if you swap out the suspension and ditch the shark tooth thingy, you don't get the points back.
Once the loan is approved, I'm out there....I'm really dying to get one of these. I was thinking about getting another S2k, an AP1, a cheaper canvas to build my track toy, then i go to an autocross and a guy is there with an ASP prepped '04 RS and gets FTD on street tires. Car looked like such a rip to drive it snapped me back into EVO mode.
Right now gonna search some threads about ECU crap and tuning these. Don't know a whole lot about it, so....
Plan has changed, I already have a great auto-x car (my S2000) and decided I don't need another one. The EVO is gonna be for moderate street use and track days. Possibly with the intention of running NASA TT in the future.
With that in mind, I'm leaning toward the 05-06 GSR or RS. The 05's in these trims seem to be the cheapest.
I did some research on the NASA forums, heard the MR gets murdered in TT because of the upgraded Bilsteins and the Vortex generator. And even though I'll probably end up on Ohlin's road and tracks or most likely AST 5100's (I like the inverted setup) with NASA, even if you swap out the suspension and ditch the shark tooth thingy, you don't get the points back.
Once the loan is approved, I'm out there....I'm really dying to get one of these. I was thinking about getting another S2k, an AP1, a cheaper canvas to build my track toy, then i go to an autocross and a guy is there with an ASP prepped '04 RS and gets FTD on street tires. Car looked like such a rip to drive it snapped me back into EVO mode.
Right now gonna search some threads about ECU crap and tuning these. Don't know a whole lot about it, so....
Once the loan is approved, I'm out there....I'm really dying to get one of these. I was thinking about getting another S2k, an AP1, a cheaper canvas to build my track toy, then i go to an autocross and a guy is there with an ASP prepped '04 RS and gets FTD on street tires. Car looked like such a rip to drive it snapped me back into EVO mode.
Right now gonna search some threads about ECU crap and tuning these. Don't know a whole lot about it, so....
Right now gonna search some threads about ECU crap and tuning these. Don't know a whole lot about it, so....
As for tuning, it's not all that exciting in STU. You can definitely squeeze more power and response out of your setup with a quality O2 housing, exhaust, and high-flow cat. However, you can't change the boost tables at all. If you want to get really crazy you can tune for the street legal 100 Octane blend. I remember one individual who tuned for E85 on the stock pump, surprisingly. Top end suffered of course but he had quite a torque hit.
Dialing in the dampers, spring rates, sway bars, and alignment are going to make the biggest difference. Sounds like you're on the right track there though.
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
My only advice is to be absolutely sure the car you're buying is in good shape. Far too many Evos have been owned, modified, and tuned by people who have no idea what they're doing. Take your time and have the car thoroughly checked out. Compression test at minimum. It's not a bad idea to take it by a friendly body shop to have them look it over as well. I had two body shops and one mechanic look over my Evo from top to bottom and give it a clean bill of health before I was willing to buy it.
As for tuning, it's not all that exciting in STU. You can definitely squeeze more power and response out of your setup with a quality O2 housing, exhaust, and high-flow cat. However, you can't change the boost tables at all. If you want to get really crazy you can tune for the street legal 100 Octane blend. I remember one individual who tuned for E85 on the stock pump, surprisingly. Top end suffered of course but he had quite a torque hit.
Dialing in the dampers, spring rates, sway bars, and alignment are going to make the biggest difference. Sounds like you're on the right track there though.
As for tuning, it's not all that exciting in STU. You can definitely squeeze more power and response out of your setup with a quality O2 housing, exhaust, and high-flow cat. However, you can't change the boost tables at all. If you want to get really crazy you can tune for the street legal 100 Octane blend. I remember one individual who tuned for E85 on the stock pump, surprisingly. Top end suffered of course but he had quite a torque hit.
Dialing in the dampers, spring rates, sway bars, and alignment are going to make the biggest difference. Sounds like you're on the right track there though.
Actually I was thinking about picking up a set of Ksport coilovers*
*denotes sarcasm
Thread Starter
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
My only advice is to be absolutely sure the car you're buying is in good shape. Far too many Evos have been owned, modified, and tuned by people who have no idea what they're doing. Take your time and have the car thoroughly checked out. Compression test at minimum. It's not a bad idea to take it by a friendly body shop to have them look it over as well. I had two body shops and one mechanic look over my Evo from top to bottom and give it a clean bill of health before I was willing to buy it.
As for tuning, it's not all that exciting in STU. You can definitely squeeze more power and response out of your setup with a quality O2 housing, exhaust, and high-flow cat. However, you can't change the boost tables at all. If you want to get really crazy you can tune for the street legal 100 Octane blend. I remember one individual who tuned for E85 on the stock pump, surprisingly. Top end suffered of course but he had quite a torque hit.
Dialing in the dampers, spring rates, sway bars, and alignment are going to make the biggest difference. Sounds like you're on the right track there though.
As for tuning, it's not all that exciting in STU. You can definitely squeeze more power and response out of your setup with a quality O2 housing, exhaust, and high-flow cat. However, you can't change the boost tables at all. If you want to get really crazy you can tune for the street legal 100 Octane blend. I remember one individual who tuned for E85 on the stock pump, surprisingly. Top end suffered of course but he had quite a torque hit.
Dialing in the dampers, spring rates, sway bars, and alignment are going to make the biggest difference. Sounds like you're on the right track there though.
Actually, jokes aside with the suspension, I'd like to solicit some opinions.
The ASTs (4100,5100) have different setups for street, street/competition, and dedicated track use.
AST rates are running about 100lb/in softer in the front (ie: 600-700)
The Ohlins are running more spring up front 550-450 or something close to that. With a 60-40 weight distribution, is more spring the way to go up front and run more bar in the back to get the back end to come around?
I also got the word that the rear LSD should be send out and reassembled toget more oversteer.
So anyway, what are you guys doing for spring rates?
Thanks for the heads-up on the compression test.
Actually, jokes aside with the suspension, I'd like to solicit some opinions.
The ASTs (4100,5100) have different setups for street, street/competition, and dedicated track use.
AST rates are running about 100lb/in softer in the front (ie: 600-700)
The Ohlins are running more spring up front 550-450 or something close to that. With a 60-40 weight distribution, is more spring the way to go up front and run more bar in the back to get the back end to come around?
I also got the word that the rear LSD should be send out and reassembled toget more oversteer.
So anyway, what are you guys doing for spring rates?
Actually, jokes aside with the suspension, I'd like to solicit some opinions.
The ASTs (4100,5100) have different setups for street, street/competition, and dedicated track use.
AST rates are running about 100lb/in softer in the front (ie: 600-700)
The Ohlins are running more spring up front 550-450 or something close to that. With a 60-40 weight distribution, is more spring the way to go up front and run more bar in the back to get the back end to come around?
I also got the word that the rear LSD should be send out and reassembled toget more oversteer.
So anyway, what are you guys doing for spring rates?
yes on rear diff
hello welcome in the bright side
hands down for any type of racing as it is today(in the US market) the best, and the easiest car to build, and the best base for future class bumps etc, is the 2006 Evo IX RS.
If you can, do not subtitute
ASt 5300 will serve you any where in any conditions. You need just swap springs, if the conditions dramaticly changing . Other wise there is literally no surface or conditions you cant sucsessfully run with them.
There is the ACD retune also you might want to look at it, well worth upgrade if you get a right mapping for it.
About the ABS... it is bad for racing , in short.
Rob
welcome in the bright side hands down for any type of racing as it is today(in the US market) the best, and the easiest car to build, and the best base for future class bumps etc, is the 2006 Evo IX RS.
If you can, do not subtitute
ASt 5300 will serve you any where in any conditions. You need just swap springs, if the conditions dramaticly changing . Other wise there is literally no surface or conditions you cant sucsessfully run with them.
There is the ACD retune also you might want to look at it, well worth upgrade if you get a right mapping for it.
About the ABS... it is bad for racing , in short.
Rob
Last edited by Robevo RS; May 20, 2012 at 05:08 AM.