Read back a dozen posts or more... We already discussed that Stock class only permits "complete" option package conversions, and only within a model year. There is no "update/backdate" in Stock class.

Another way to look at it -- the base car (before you apply Stock class allowances) must be in a configuration that could be ordered from the factory for the model year which is encoded in the car's VIN.

The only USDM Evos without a front LSD are the '03 and '04 non-RS Evos. The '03 models can never run a front LSD in Stock class. The '04 non-RS models can run a front LSD in Stock class only if the owner does a "complete" RS conversion.

 

I ran a little different alignment settings than was mentioned here, -2.01/1.92 neg. camber front, -1.0 rear, 1/2 inch toe out front, 1/4 inch toe out rear. I also had the Project MU Titan Kai race pads, Neo high temp brake fluid, Neo RHD gear oil in both diffs. and Neo HD in the trans. Hoosier A3S04's was my tire choice at 55psi front/ 49 rear. I ran the stock Yoko's for rain tires.

IMO, I would change out the front sway bar with a larger one to help body roll (adjustable is nice). Everyone I talked to (repeat National champions) have done this with success. If I had decided to run AS again, this would be the first mod on my list. You are not going to completely eliminate the inside front tire spin (at least not with the 03'/04' non-RS). It's better that you adapt your driving to smoother corner exits.

BTW, I'm selling my Koni double adjustable strut/shocks custom made "legal" for A-Stock (moving up to ESP/STU). Since I was a rookie for tuning suspensions, the more and more I played with the dampening (compression/rebound), the more and more the changes were evident. At midway through the season, I could actually adjust for track surface grip and tire ware. I also dialed out most of the understeer to a slight oversteer (more if needed). True, they are expensive, but they are for the serious contender.


Dave

 

So what size/brand/model tires are people running in Stock?

 

In '03, I ran Kumho Ecsta V700s in 235/40-17 IIRC. I also ran a few events on the stock Advans. I shaved the V700s, but had problems cording the outside shoulders. I had good results with them outside of that.

In '04, I ran Hoosier A3S04s in 245/40-17. The shoulders held up better on these than with the V700s, but I ran a lot more air in them too (low to mid 50's up front) and they still wore badly in that area. The V700s might have held up better had I run more air in them, who knows. I also ran Toyo RA1s at several events in 235/45-17. I'm sure they weren't as quick as either the Hoosiers or Kumhos, but I had minimal problems with the shoulders and they were great in the wet and I drove them everyday during the summer.

For '05, I'm not sure what I am going to do, but I am considering a hybrid strategy -- Kumho V710s in 275/40-17 up front and Toyo RA1s in 235/45-17 in the rear. Why? I have heard that 275 V710s, mounted on wheels similar to mine (+33 offset) do fit on a stock class Evo, though it is not clear how much, if any, rubbing there is. These tires just happen to have the same diameter as the 235 RA1s, which I was quite happy with as a combination street/competition tire. The V710s will be grippier than the RA1s for sure, but I don't think the difference will be enough to cause major balance problems. In fact, it may even help. And since I would be running the RA1s as my everyday tire, I would only have to change two tires at an event instead of four. And if it was raining, I wouldn't have to change tires at all. The V710s also supposedly have rounder shoulders than the Hoosiers so I am hoping that will help with the wear issues I have had. I am also thinking that squeezing a 275 on a 8" rim may help with that too, but I'm not sure.

Will this work? I don't know, but I figure it's worth a shot. If anybody out there has first hand knowledge of running 275 tires on a stock class Evo or mixed setups like I have described, please chime in!

JW

 

I would be interested in hearing opinions on the pluses and minuses of putting wide tires (255 and up) on 8 in. rims to remain in AS.

From what I have heard, there are two schools of thought:

1. It doesn't matter (i.e. if you can get it on the rim and it doesn't rub "too much"). Wider is always better because fast cornering = fast time in AutoX.

2. You shouldn't put a tire wider than a 245/45 on an 8 in. rim because the shoulder extends too far over the rim causing the tire to move side-to-side more than it should. The thinking being that the wider tire weakens the sidewall. I also wonder how a really wide tire (over 255) on an 8 in. rim would affect how the bead seats against the rim. By the way, for Victoracers Kumho says the minimum wheel width is 8.5 for a 255/40.


On a different subject, I keep hearing differing opinions on the rub issue for the front strut. Neil from Tire Rack told me that 255/40 was possible but some modifications were necessary. I assume he is talking about spacers. Even with the stock rims and Advans, the space at rest between the tire and strut is not that much (5/8"?). In order for the wide tire to survive, the side-to-side movement would have to be almost nill.


Does more negative camber in the front bring the sidewall closer to the strut?

Opinions?

 

Someone in my region ran 255's on 17x8 enki's. Did pretty well. Had no issues with rubbing.

 

For what it's worth, Larry Fine was running 275 Kumho V710s on the front of his A Stock STi, on 7.5 inch wheels. The tires looked just awful -- just a ridiculous amount of "pinch" between the tread and the rim. It took some fairly creative techniques (and I'm guessing a few choice swear words) just to get those mounted. I don't know whether he considered the experiment to be a success...

I think it depends where you get the camber. In A Stock, you're basically stuck with the factory adjustment via the eccentric bolt. Unfortunately, getting camber there (at the bottom of the strut) does push the top of the tire closer to the strut -- you are tilting the hub relative to the strut to get camber.

With a camber plate at the top of the strut (like is generally done in classes above Stock), dialing in additional camber should not noticeably impact the sidewall/strut clearance -- in this case, you are tilting the strut (and the hub along with it) to get camber.

 

I'm of the impression that 275s are commonly put on 17x8 rims for autocross, at least by the pony car crowd. The 2004 Nation Champion in FS Dave Schotz used 275/40-17 V710s on 17x8 wheels on a Mach 1. It's no Evo to be sure, but it's enough evidence for a lemming like me that oversize rubber can/does work...

see http://www.sccaforums.com/ubb/ultima...p/topic/18/805

JW

 

What's the max size tire on the stock wheels with minimal rubbing?

Are there stock-legal wheels that allow larger tires due to a different offset?

 

Well, the wheels I am planning to use with my 275 experiment are 17x8 Volks with a +33 offset, versus the stock +38. Obviously, that will give me more clearance with regards to the strut, but I expect things to be pretty tight all around anyway; we'll see.

I've read numerous accounts on these forums of 255s being sucessfully used on the stock Enkeis. I've also heard of 275s being used, but all those stories have been second hand info and I don't have a good feel as to what the rub factor was. That's one reason I'm just going to try two at first and not a full set...

JW

 

A quick update on my experiment...

I ran my hybrid tire setup (275/40-17 V710s up front, 235/45-17 RA1s out back) three times, and this is how things worked out:

Event 1 (FedEx Field): Excellent balance and a decent result despite poor driving on my part, but the conditions were cool and damp, so I really didn't learn too much. No rubbing from the 275s.

Event 2 (Rosecroft Raceway): Much better weather this time. The balance was good and I got nice rotation and posted one of the fastest times of the day. Unfortunately, it was a first gear only course, so there was still some doubt as to how it would handle at a "normal" autocross. This time I got very slight rubbing on the left front fender liner.

Event 3 (FedEx Field): Nice weather. Excellent balance on the slower portions of the course, but scary once I got some speed up. As long as I coluld keep my foot in it, I was in good shape, but it was murder when I had to lift (I spun three times). If I had adjustable shocks, I'm thinking I might have been able to tune out some of the nasty transient behavior and still kept the nice steady state balance. As for the abrupt locking of the center diff that Eric mentioned in one of these threads, I did get some of that, but it didn't seem that bad. Of course that may be because I was too busy trying to keep the rear end where it belongs to notice it more. This time I got a bit more rubbing on the left fender liner, but it was still pretty minor.

Anyway, I'm giving up on the idea for now and am getting two more 710s mounted today. We'll see how things work out with those on all four corners...

JW

 

I had looseness on that course all day long, even with shock adjustments. I'm running a decidedly non-Stock setup, with 285/30R18 tires all around, full coilovers, and with a lot more power, but I spun on my first run and then had to tread gingerly all around the course on my next three runs. That was even after a pair of rear shock adjustments which should have reduced the oversteer.

After discussing it with some others at the event, I came to the conclusion that my front end was sticking like glue and that's just the way it is with brand new 285 Hoosiers... With your hybrid setup, it's likely that your front tires' grip just overwhelmed your rear tires' grip. If I'm not mistaken, this was your first event with this setup where you had good weather on good quality pavement...

 

JW, JB,

Aren't we early birds this morning!

Either of you two coming over for the Toledo, Oscoda, or Peru Tour/Pro events this year?



Dave

 

I probably won't venture out of our region this season unless my prowess behind the wheel increases suddenly. Or my car setup gets a lot better. I wouldn't put a lot of money on either though. I'd like to do our Divisional in July, but unless I'm driving better than I have been, it'll be hard to justify wiping out the whole weekend just to get my butt kicked (domestic tranquility vs. butt kicking, hmmm ). I think I'll probably just let Jack continue to fly the DC Region Evo flag, at least until he moves to CA...

JW

 

That's not all they overwhelmed. I'm lucky the passenger I had for my second run didn't mess her seat after my spins

JW