on a dyno, transient performance is not truly measured. For this same reason - gamma-ti and ball bearing turbos do nothing for drag racing. If you take your hta86 singlescroll around a road race track, which is entirely transients, the 7670 will destroy it... however on a drag strip or dyno its a totally different story

when you say abrupt - what exactly are you describing?



200tq@ 3000rpm
300tq@ 3400rpm
400tq@ 3800rpm
500tq@ 3900rpm
550tq@ 4000rpm

that 1000rpm he gains 350tq I assume thats what you are describing as "abrupt" i say its a combination of a great buschur built motor + an epic full-race twinscroll EFR turbokit... which clearly has demand far outpacing supply. ultimately it all works together, in concert

 

just realized i didnt fully answer the question - the EFR and S200SX are not the same turbo aside from gamma-ti, the ONLY similarity is they share the same turbine wheel blade aero geometries and compressor wheel exducers.

note: the s200sx from Mark Shead was tested on a near stock 2.0L evo

 

By abrupt I mean what you typed:

200tq@ 3000rpm
300tq@ 3400rpm
400tq@ 3800rpm
500tq@ 3900rpm
550tq@ 4000rpm

That is an abrupt/fast spooling turbo and not even close to similar to the graph you posted on page 5. I have the answer though already, nearly stock EVO 2 liter you said. So I will take some of the credit for the difference in the charts with the rest of the package

I do not agree with you about the transient response comparing my car to the EFR turbo'd EVO. Only because the power difference is so drastic in the two (mine being higher) and the fact that I would never have the car low enough in the rpm for the boost to not come in instantly. The response on my car is actually good enough I autocross it, it's not stock turbo or what that EFR is under 4400 rpm BUT it works well enough and I am talking about a VERY tight autocross course. If you are interested in a video I can shoot you a link. On a road course like Mid Ohio, which I am very familiar with and hold both course records at, I can tell you my car would be an absolute beast and the turbo would have instant response.

I wish I was capable of overlaying my dyno sheet with the EFR's, I see other guys do it in photoshop or something.

BTW, I have offered to pay for the EFR to hit a Dynojet, I want to see what it does on the "industry standard".

 

EvoM drama is great. Filled with lots of talent. Plus Clayton has now been replaced by Eric. lol.

 

well if we're talking about something with a ~62mm inducer like your hta86 comparison, im going to revert back to the airwerks again and say that the brand new borgwarner S300SX FMW would be a great comparison to something of that hta3586 size



its basically just a standard S300SX turbo, with the choice of 2 turbine wheel blade types, 4 different housings and an 83mm OD/61.4mm ID forged billet compressor wheel. i guess its the "dumbed down EFR" that evodan was asking me about since he didnt want the internal bov, solenoid, gamma ti or stainless hsg. the fact that its actually available and less than half the price is also a bonus.

edit: will be very cool to see his dynojet results. in all honesty i think everyone relies on dyno numbers and bench racing way too much...

 

I agree with the dyno numbers/bench racing too much but in the case of this "heated" discussion I'd like to see the numbers from a Dynojet, as much as I can't stand a Dynojet they are at least consistent and will give a better idea of the actual spool up and numbers.

 

Wow. Alot of info here guys. But now I'm even more confused.

 

:-)

 

Major off topic.

Please delete your post and start your own thread.

 

Yeah, I agree, thread is way out there as it is. Start another thread and delete your post, it would work better.

 

OK, so here is the quote from the other EFR thread, I didn't want to get that thread off topic and wrecked too.

I was on the dyno tuning an EVO9 today, quite stellar actually but that's another story. 360 whp/350 torque. 3rd gear pull, not sure of the turbo but maybe an old FP White. A pull on our dyno, which loads the car like the street does, took just 5 seconds. 5 seconds from 2500-7300 rpm in 3rd gear and my loading is extremely close to the street.

I can only imagine what loading a car for 11 seconds in the same gear would do to the spool up and curve........just saying. A MD will also load a car like that, I do not use that feature, I find it useless, when I start towing trailers with the EVO I will do that maybe.

 

Yea, I'm a bit more confused now than I was when i started this thread lol. My takeaway is this,

1) the EFR shows preliminary results like nothing else, but availability is limited. I read the full technical document and I like premise around which the EFR was engineered very much. Availability is the only issue holding me back on that one.

2) i'm curious to see what the "EFReater" performs like under Dave's testing.

3) The engineer in me is still skeptical about modified turbos with mismatched compressor/turbine sides when it comes to long term all weather daily reliability combined with roadrace abuse. (FP and the like). They work extremely well on the dyno and on the street, but I know nothing ever comes for free in the physical world, you don't gain a bunch of power out of a turbo that had a hotside and CHRA that was sized to flow a lot less and maintain the same level of reliability int he long run.

The original question is still up in the air. Dave I'm interested to see how the testing on your car goes next week...

 

I am interested too. Keep in mind the guys calling out "mix matched" and such are guys also promoting the EFR, everyone of them from what I can see. FP has been building these "mix matched" turbos now for about 8 years, the results have been nothing short of outstanding. There are more FP turbo's on EVO's and DSM's than any other brand I'd say. There are guys talking about failures and yes, they happen but when you have 900 out of 1000 turbo's you are bound to hear about more failures. I think if I was going to talk about an unproven product it would be the EFR. It's been out for a short time, I don't care who built it, is hard to get has hardly any success stories because nobody is using it. Then we've had two guys who are promoting them who have also stated there have been turbine wheel failures.....hmmm, not many out there and known failures. I think I will take the "mix matched". I will also remind some who need it that the MILLION dollar EVO of sierra's got beat by the Cyber EVO.......again, last I checked the Cyber EVO is running some pretty old turbo technology. There's more to a car than the turbo, that's for sure

 

Yeah, from what I understand that CyberEVO weighs next to nothing...weight savings, FTW.

 

I can assure you there was NO expense spared on the sierra evo, NONE.