And in the big picture you guys are going to change your lives. After doing something like this you will forever be hooked. You are racing PIKES PEAK! It's freakin bad ***!

 

yep, that is a one way street .... LOL

 

Its this kind of attitude that led to parts falling off lotus F1 cars... The PP rule book is a bit of a joke honestly. Name one other sanctioning body that allows aluminum roll cages....

For the two additional bars we're talking, I suspect they would do nothing to "stiffen the chassis" from the suspension standpoint you're likley talking about. Weight wise, you're probably talking an extra 10-15 lbs. Where the extra bars are beneficial is if everything goes wrong and the car ends up flipping over...i.e. the stuff that you don't have control over.

I have a friend of a friend who built a minimum spec rally cage about a decade ago. They decided to skip reinforcement near the front end of the cage. At one of the first events they did, the driver fell asleep on a transit late at night and had a head on. The navvie's ankles got crippled because the engine was pushed into the area by his feet. In retrospect, that extra 5 lbs would've been a game changer.

Your cage looks stronger than mine for side impacts (read: another car crashing into you at the track), but I'd much rather roll over in my car. As others have said, it's all up to you guys to decide what's safe enough...I just think with zero experience at rally/hillclimb and a driver with what sounds like minimal high speed experience, listening to some folks with knowledge of such things is a smarter way to go rather than spouting off about how you've built your safety gear to the absolute minimum spec. Sure those extra 15 lbs might cost you what 2 seconds over the whole race course? IMO, not worth the tradeoff.

I wish you guys the best and can't wait to see Evos putting the hurt on the other cars!

Just out of curiousity, how light is your car? Mine was 2975 lbs with a full tank of gas last year. Like Rob said above...rally cars are pretty heavy.

Dave

 

our car clocked in around 2650lbs wet a few years ago. i anticipate to be quite a bit ligher then that this go-around. that 15lbs here, 15lbs there starts to add up it made 580whp last time too. i de-tuned it to meet the NASA TTU rules on the same dyno that i tuned Dave Cs car on in 2010. mine detuned made 480, Daves barely made 400 (and only made 400+ after i gave him bigger injectors). F=M*A, we got a lot of F and reduced the M so i expect a lot of A

p.s. i'm an engineer so i understand roll cages...

 

mine is just below 3200lbs as it stands today stage ready, but this year we will shave off more for sure
and 300 + whp with limited power band from 2500- 5500 rpm ...lol

so you guys should be flying there !!

ps; what is your suspension and brake set up /tire choice for a race?

 

Rob, I'm sure your car is still plenty fun to drive!

We will be running KW's on the car as of this writing.
Wheels will be 18x10.5"
Tires are still up in the air. But I'm leaning towards Hoosier A6's since that's what I have the most experience with. Though we are seriously looking at R6's, Kumho V710's and even the Hankook R-Comps. I'll go fast on what ever we pick and ultimately I think it will come down to whatever we feel will handle the heat the best.

P.S. Car is back from the body shop and is being reassembled as we speak!

P.P.S. I think what Kevin is trying to say is that our cage is sufficient enough to meet the rules. And despite additional bracing we will be sure to upset many of our competitors while running in a safe, competitive environment.

 

coool ! thanks for the insight

sounds a damn fast set up! Make sure guys you will get a right spring and tire coumpound set up right and balanced other wise since a long climb you can loose a lot.
Since you guys say mostly autox set up you guys familiar with , i suggest try to get a softer set up of suspension and a harder set up tires. do you guys have a testing ground around you which is long as PP? if you do try the tires aprox a same avarage temp at pikes peak and see how it is holds up. Also remember the hill as you climb gets colder , so sometimes a softer tire set up is better but you need to baby it the warmer bottom part and get on it on the top. LOL

the hardest task is basically set up the tire and suspension for that. Usaullay the engine as long as its runs the last on the list you should be worry. More like suspension tires brakes choice will be decide who win and who doesnt.
I am sure you guys figure it out but i had to say it. I cant shut up . LOL

 

Hey rob, you are correct that most of Jeremy's experience is from auto cross, but myself and my car have mainly track experience and time trials. This year I'm sponsoring 6 NASA time trails cars. In three race weekends we have 4 first places and two track records. Setting up the car to handle 10 miles of pavement at full speed is exactly what we do, and we do it very well. Like I said, pikes peak will be new to us, but the car setup is something I feel we have a huge advantage over others with. Especially over rally specialists who aren't familiar with Hoosier a6/r6 tires like we are

 

some teaser pictures before i begin assembling the car this week


start of the wiring:


75% through wiring:


wire tuck at the fuel rail:



wire tuck at the thermostat housing:



and the angry looking front end:

 

Looks like you guys are getting it back together quick!

Holy hell, that's light for a fully caged car! Can I ask what if any stuff have you done in terms of chopping off bits of chassis? I'm assuming you guys have all the other standard lightweight replacement bits on the car like a moustache delete, lightweight front x-member, lexan, etc.


Absolutely, 100% true that your car meets the rules, please don't think I'm second guessing that aspect of it. What the rally folks are trying to tell you is that even though your cage is good and a design like that was considered top notch just a few years ago in rally circles, but it could be made safer with a minimal tradeoff in weight.

PP rules are far from "industry standard" if you consider rally to be the closest form of motorsport (in terms of they types of crashes factor). How many other sanctioning bodies allow aluminum roll cages? Sure its legal under the rules...but are you kidding me...aluminum roll cage sounds shady as hell!

The point everyone is trying to make is that Pikes Peak should be approached with a rally car mentality from the safety aspect because its TREES, ROCKS, and FLYING OFF A CLIFF, that are your main concern should a crash happen. The two most recent fatalities in US rally (Lovell/Freeman and Marker) were both accidents in which the cars flipped over and hit trees with the roof....something that could easily happen at Pikes Peak.

Two of my good friends both broke their backs when they flew off the road on the 1st or 2nd corner at Pikes Peak in 2008, and now there are more strict rules governing seat belt installation. I consider myself extremely fortunate that I managed to hit a guardrail last year...if that hadn't been there, who knows what would've happened, but it wouldn't have been pretty.

The point I'm trying to get across is that terrible accidents that have killed people in the last 5-8 years in the rally world have led to better engineered rules which can help save lives in severe accidents. Being proactive and going above and beyond the minimum rules isn't a terrible idea.


I for one don't doubt that you're going to have one hell of a fast car up there and hopefully we'll see a bunch of dominance!

One last thing to consider is that in Rally America they don't let 'rally newbies' start out in turbocharged AWD vehicles (which are restrictor limited to "just" 300 hp), so consider that you're going to be running something with at least a 50% bump in power over those levels.

I know we can all talk a good game about driving sensibly and not taking any risks...but who are we kidding, we're all gearheads and race car drivers who get caught up in the red mist as soon as that green flag drops. Everyone here, myself included would love to see you have an incident free week up on the hill and get hooked for life on the race...but there's no shame in hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.

Dave

 

gutted doors, mustache delete, aluminum side mounts for the rear diff, two piece AL driveshaft, front crossmember, lexan side and rear windows, carbon trunk, carbon fenders, dry carbon hood, quartermaster twin clutch (much lighter then exedy clutches), AC delete, aluminum roof, obviously interior is removed, removed the undercoating crap, fuel cell, etc....

 

Kevin,

It looks like you made your own plated near the fenders to mount the core support to, is that correct? Or did I miss something on mine and it is completely removable?


The car is looking great! I only wish I had a tubing bender and my welding was as nice as yours!

 

Kevin,
I agree on all points about taking weight seriously. If you've read RCVD it rings even more true.... and if you've raced in FSAE... you've learned it the hard way.

That being said... be safe out there.

Another point, I ran R6's and autocrossed my car last year.. granted it was 80 degrees and I had a co-driver so we put a lot of heat into them, but I don't think the R6 will be a BAD choice, but the A6 may be faster...especially considering the weather conditions!

 

315's???

 

Kevin do you have pictures of the car with doors painted? would be nice to see Shiny paint is always fun.