Pulling the trigger - Getting into NASA for 2013 - Help me spend $6k!
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, WI
I hear ya there - PFCs have a lower minimum operating temp, you can definitely get away with that. Couldnt stand to do much DD with them though - had 01's on my Boss and did the DD thing for a time, and it drove me freakin nuts. Personally, I run a Carbotech setup on the Evo - no rotor changes needed for me, and pads are fast swaps.
If that's what Joe Grande told you, I guess its okay. 2 years ago when I attended my first NASA HPDE event, I was told in tech I couldn't use the harness on track. I've used the stock belts since then, but sometimes I will sneak in the lap portion only, and wear my stock belts over that.
if you pull apart the latest CCR it still allows two FIA homologation numbers of 4 points (of which the schroth profi 2 ASM and the teamtech jet pilot are the only two that conform). what they REALLY cracked down on was the 4 points that mounted to the floor in the back.
if i remember ill send the email up to the national level guys.
Nathan,
Very good questions. In a sense, 4 points have been outlawed in NASA for a couple of years now. The only exceptions are those listed in the CCR. The only belts that conform to those standards listed in the CCR are: The Teamtech Jet Pilot harness system, which is basically a system with 4 mounting points that acts like a 6 point system. The Schroth Profi ASM system. Both the Profi and the Teamtech still requires proper seat cutouts and a proper harness bar to mount them to. Finally the Schroth Tuning Belts, which are car specific and must match the manufacturer, model, and date of the car they will be installed in. These belts can be anchored to the rear seat anchor points and use the stock seats. Harness bars do not have to be certified, however if they are of a home design, you must demonstrate to us that they were properly designed to carry the load in the event of an accident (Which can be as high as 3500 Lb psi in a frontal impact).
Hopefully this helps, let me know if you have any further questions.
Joe
Very good questions. In a sense, 4 points have been outlawed in NASA for a couple of years now. The only exceptions are those listed in the CCR. The only belts that conform to those standards listed in the CCR are: The Teamtech Jet Pilot harness system, which is basically a system with 4 mounting points that acts like a 6 point system. The Schroth Profi ASM system. Both the Profi and the Teamtech still requires proper seat cutouts and a proper harness bar to mount them to. Finally the Schroth Tuning Belts, which are car specific and must match the manufacturer, model, and date of the car they will be installed in. These belts can be anchored to the rear seat anchor points and use the stock seats. Harness bars do not have to be certified, however if they are of a home design, you must demonstrate to us that they were properly designed to carry the load in the event of an accident (Which can be as high as 3500 Lb psi in a frontal impact).
Hopefully this helps, let me know if you have any further questions.
Joe
that being said im sure different regions could decide on their own to outlaw them. has anyone ever seen any install of an anchor for sub belts without drilling the floor, and that might even bolt in?
Last edited by killerpenguin21; Nov 2, 2012 at 11:11 PM.
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, WI
The problem you run into with 4-pointers is that, per the CCR, the specific 4-point must be approved for your specific vehicle, taking into account your vehicle's mount points and rigidity, etc.. Sure, that could happen, but why mess with it? 5 and 6 pointers are much safer - there is a reason for the submarine straps.
I have seen mounting arrangements for 5 and 6-point systems which used eyelet clips bolted in with the seat mount brackets, thereby eliminating the need to drill additional holes. There's quite a few ways to do this and be legal with the CCR. So yes, perfectly doable.
Bottom line is, 4-point harnesses pretty well suck. If you are spending the money anyway, spend it on something that is much safer and works well - and is less likely to cause you headaches at tech inspection.
I have seen mounting arrangements for 5 and 6-point systems which used eyelet clips bolted in with the seat mount brackets, thereby eliminating the need to drill additional holes. There's quite a few ways to do this and be legal with the CCR. So yes, perfectly doable.
Bottom line is, 4-point harnesses pretty well suck. If you are spending the money anyway, spend it on something that is much safer and works well - and is less likely to cause you headaches at tech inspection.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/10446199-post7.html
thoughts?
and what bushing kit is a good deal? the $700 whiteline?
thoughts?
and what bushing kit is a good deal? the $700 whiteline?
Last edited by prowakeskater; Nov 3, 2012 at 09:57 AM.
The problem you run into with 4-pointers is that, per the CCR, the specific 4-point must be approved for your specific vehicle, taking into account your vehicle's mount points and rigidity, etc.. Sure, that could happen, but why mess with it? 5 and 6 pointers are much safer - there is a reason for the submarine straps.
I have seen mounting arrangements for 5 and 6-point systems which used eyelet clips bolted in with the seat mount brackets, thereby eliminating the need to drill additional holes. There's quite a few ways to do this and be legal with the CCR. So yes, perfectly doable.
Bottom line is, 4-point harnesses pretty well suck. If you are spending the money anyway, spend it on something that is much safer and works well - and is less likely to cause you headaches at tech inspection.
I have seen mounting arrangements for 5 and 6-point systems which used eyelet clips bolted in with the seat mount brackets, thereby eliminating the need to drill additional holes. There's quite a few ways to do this and be legal with the CCR. So yes, perfectly doable.
Bottom line is, 4-point harnesses pretty well suck. If you are spending the money anyway, spend it on something that is much safer and works well - and is less likely to cause you headaches at tech inspection.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/10446199-post7.html
thoughts?
and what bushing kit is a good deal? the $700 whiteline?
thoughts?
and what bushing kit is a good deal? the $700 whiteline?
im running a very basic setup, and adding just the whiteline bump steer and probably rear trailing arm bushings this winter. in 3 days out at lime rock, with the amount i learned about the car, i was able to get up to speed nicely.
i didnt read every post so i apologize in advance if its been covered.
first, welcome to NASA! I havent run with them much, but worked enough events to know my way around. I am sure you will have a blast. are you going to trailer your car or drive to an from (if trying to be comp, trailer is the way to go).
- be prepared to spend way more money than you are budgeting for.
- trailer
- like tires, brake pads, brakes rotors, and more brake pads.
- if harnesses, at least an autopower 4 pt race bare
- fixed back seats and depending on how comp and rules (i am sure you know this better than I) a good fire suit, helmet, hans device etc.
- like you said, sorting out your suspension, camber, alignment etc
- SD instead of MAF? just a thought.
good luck and have fun!
first, welcome to NASA! I havent run with them much, but worked enough events to know my way around. I am sure you will have a blast. are you going to trailer your car or drive to an from (if trying to be comp, trailer is the way to go).
- be prepared to spend way more money than you are budgeting for.
- trailer
- like tires, brake pads, brakes rotors, and more brake pads.
- if harnesses, at least an autopower 4 pt race bare
- fixed back seats and depending on how comp and rules (i am sure you know this better than I) a good fire suit, helmet, hans device etc.
- like you said, sorting out your suspension, camber, alignment etc
- SD instead of MAF? just a thought.
good luck and have fun!
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/10446199-post7.html
thoughts?
and what bushing kit is a good deal? the $700 whiteline?
thoughts?
and what bushing kit is a good deal? the $700 whiteline?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/8970328-post8.html
Whiteline - Roll center correction, which I think is the tie rod ends and the piece that goes into the hub.
Perrin - Front control arm caster adjustment
Energy Suspension - black ones for the rear diff
Robispec - the rest with hard bearings or whiteline's, but the hard's will do 2x as much and last 10x as long.
Perrin - Front control arm caster adjustment
Energy Suspension - black ones for the rear diff
Robispec - the rest with hard bearings or whiteline's, but the hard's will do 2x as much and last 10x as long.
Whiteline - Roll center correction, which I think is the tie rod ends and the piece that goes into the hub.
Perrin - Front control arm caster adjustment
Energy Suspension - black ones for the rear diff
Robispec - the rest with hard bearings or whiteline's, but the hard's will do 2x as much and last 10x as long.
Perrin - Front control arm caster adjustment
Energy Suspension - black ones for the rear diff
Robispec - the rest with hard bearings or whiteline's, but the hard's will do 2x as much and last 10x as long.
although XTR performance is willing to hook up
Rear Bump steer correction kit
Rear Front Lower Trailing Arm Bushing Kit
Front Lower Inner Control Arm Bushing Kit
Front Control Arm Bushing Kit
Rear Front Upper Control Arm Bushing Kit
Rear Lower Inner Control Arm Bushing Kit
Rear Lower Outer Control Arm Bushing Kit
Rear Upper/Inner Control Arm Bushing Kit
Rear Upper Inner Control Arm Bushing Kit
all for a good price. should I take it?
nevermind. realizing Im just being lazy, Ill look that stuff up. Probably just going to get it honestly.
Will I be researching into this as much as I did for tuning? 'Should I be' is probably the better question.
I just want to drive fast. with precision. and skill.
Will I be researching into this as much as I did for tuning? 'Should I be' is probably the better question.
I just want to drive fast. with precision. and skill.