RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

I was thinking the same thing. Although I applaud his thinking and am interested to see where it goes.

Jaraxle

Surge tanks can still be starved if all the fuel is on the passenger side!
(not mentioning names)
And they are expensive and complex (more pumps and relays and whatnot)!

More importantly I will list all the parts and cost for each upgrade (oil cooling, fuel changes) and I believe that for my setup (non E85) this will be a very cost effective solution to a car that has serious design short comings.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Bryan's surge tank ran dry because he ran a stock fuel pump on stock wiring as a lift pump. I have seen no issues with using an ASNU 320LPH pump, or DW65c, rewired to run full voltage full time.

Jaraxle

Makes sense. And watching the track video makes me queezy. I don't want that to be my future, and I am hoping that my low cost setup will be a solution that works for gasoline. No heating of the fuel (not sure if its an issue or not) through looping it from a lifting pump at full voltage and back out the surge tank and around and around around....

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

? I don't have a video of the failure.

Also I'm not convinced stock low/high voltage had anything to do with it. The in-tank pump will be at full voltage 100% at WOT or even during half throttle.

Having the in-tank pump or even the surge tank pump running at full voltage all the time will just heat the fuel up that much faster.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

There's no real pressure involved circulating the fuel from the main tank to the surge tank and back again. So, not too much heat.


Will an aftermarket higher flow pump work on the stock wiring? maybe. I'd rather not chance it though, so they get hardwired.

Jaraxle

Well rallysportdirect had it for 250 bucks shipped and it arrived yesterday. Thanks for pointing me to CSF because this looks to be a fantastic American made radiator that was 100 bucks CHEAPER than the mishimoto x-line I was originally looking at.

All parts are in except:

1.) Radium pump hanger / cup - still considering. On the fence.
2.) Oil cooler itself - deciding on size/configuration - WHAT WAS the FINAL confirmed SETRAB part number for the Evo X MAP oil cooler kit ?

I am concerned that if I just use the four pickups directly to a pump; could the passenger side end up DRY (due to venturi transfer to drivers side and pickup always sucking fuel equally on both sides) long enough to cause the pickups to dry out and OPEN which would suck air. It seems I may need to DISABLE the venturi transfer of fuel from passenger side to drivers side, since the fuel will be grabbed from both sides equally all the time (or one side after a bad slosh over the hump).

As for the video comment - I swear I watched a track video where the surge tank went dry and the AFR went sky high. Maybe it didn't go BOOM at the time, but it was a confirmed lean condition from a surge tank being starved... Am I imagining this?

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Not from me. All my vids are here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvn...f_id=0&sort=dd

Jaraxle

I know. I was already following you on youtube so apparently I am losing it, which I guess is expected with age. Maybe I am thinking of a CHET video? I remember in car track video, bunch of combo turns ending in a long left hand turn and you see the AFR skyrocket as the surge tank was starved. Well anyhow we know what the problem is with these tanks, and I am cautious about going off the proven path of a surge tank setup. If I was E85 I wouldn't mess around since the fuel requirements are 30% higher, but with my 93 setup I hope I can solve the fuel starvation without a surge tank. I am leaning hard towards the radium hanger/cup though and dump the passenger side fuel in it via walbro pickups from all four corners.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

Easiest fix: Keep the tank topped off between sessions. Seriously. Unless you are on tracks longer than three miles with a ton of linked sweeping left turns and longer than twenty minute sessions you will be fine.

Once you go ethanol is when everything falls apart. I had all sorts of issues come up after I went over E50.

Jaraxle

Once I know there is an issue or shortcoming I cannot let it go. It's like I know it is broken and I don't like broken toys! But honestly the track I run (historically) is Watkins Glen for 30min+ sessions. Turn 11 is a long left OFF CAMBER and so that is a bit of a concern. Normal fuel refill requires a jump into town, and that kills time. I would like to do that as infrequent as possible.

Talking about the 10 micron Aeromotive fuel filter I selected.
This is from injector dynamics:

"Electronic fuel injectors are built to precise dimensions, measured in microns. The smallest of particles can increase wear, or even destroy a fuel injector. Bosch provides a specification for protection of electronic fuel injectors, which is a minimum capture efficiency of 87% at 5 microns, and 100% capture efficiency at 35 microns. This means that the filter will capture at least 87% of all particles 5 microns and larger, and 100% of all particles 35 micron and larger."

The filter that guys tend to use is the Russel or Jegs model with stainless element of size 40 microns. Maybe if you're E85 you're forced to run such a large filter size, but according to Bosch that isn't going to cut it. The filter is 5 inches long and 2" around with male 6an on the inlet and outlet. I am using a Radium pre-made PTFE line for the jump from the filter to the hard line to the FPR, and I am making the PTFE line from the hard line engine compartment feed to the filter inlet.

6466_BOOSTED

I'm pushing 850hp with a ShepTrans and a 6466. I break my car all the time

MinusPrevious

iTrader: (3)

We know our new members tend to post OT posts, to gather their initial 15, but we want to welcome them, rather than criticize

Thanks,

Jaraxle

So after running through all of the possible fuel scenarios on a white board:
Low tank. Low tank hard left on track. Low tank but on the highway for extended period. Low tank doing quarter mile, etc....long story short I gave in to what was the correct design.
I ordered the radium hanger/fuel reservoir. The post by razorlab (which I thanked for) above stuck with me, which summarized the capacities of the stock fuel housing and the radium one:

Stock housing:
No pump
0.71 liters

With oem pump
0.177 liters

Basically, it doesn't hold shiat.

Radium fuel cup without pump(s):
1.28 liters

So the plan now is one pump (CNT or OEM) will be mounted OUTSIDE of it and dump into it from the four corners of the tank via the walbro pickups. This will be powered by a manual switch by the driver. While I am in the tank I decided to swap out my CNT fuel pump for a new Walbro 255lph. The CNT pump was cheap and held up fine, but there is so little data I am unsure if I am close to the limit for it. The Walbro unit was always reliable in the past, I just avoided it because of the noise.

Jaraxle

I was delayed on this project by a week hospital stay!
It started in the ER with my wife and six year old at my side and the doctor having "the talk" that I might lose my left leg!

Good news is I still have both legs and am getting around with crutches and a jazzy chair (currently stock, mods to come). Expect a full recovery.

I went with the derale 25 row oil cooler because I was able to verify that the Setrab unit used in the MAP kit is indeed a 6 series 25 row cooler. That is the only part I am waiting to come in.
My father and brother may install this stuff with me barking orders in the garage. We shall see.
Getting the fuel pickups to all four corners of the tank is going to be rough, and I don't see them seeing it through. Mounting the fuel filter to the firewall I can see them doing for me.
Anyhow, as promised I will have pics of the install and all the parts.
I have had time to think about the overall changes and I feel that this will make the car 100% road/race ready. Summary is:

SST cooling - Already done: three coolers, two air/liquid and one liquid/liquid
Oil cooling - Derale 25 row cooler that matches setrab unit size in MAP kit
Coolant cooling: CSF racing radiator replacing stock radiator
Fuel supply - Radium fuel pump hanger with 255 single Walbro and upgraded venturi jet pump. Fuel hanger area/cup fed by OEM fuel pump @9v via four walbro auto-closing pickups at each corner of the tank.