kevind has a challenge
i'll take the challenge...
my criteria: i'll tune the car for MAX hp and torque on the street. i get to log everything with my wideband and obd logger.
strap the car to the dyno, do 2-3 pulls to get an average.
next, i remove my tune (all of it, injector scaling, timing tables, MIVEC, fuel tables, fuel cut, etc..). then he tunes it on the dyno. compare dyno numbers. then i get to log his tune on the street, AFR, timing etc... to compare in both conditions.
we can compare the HP/torque curves, as well as the logs on the street to see how the two tuning conditions compare.
whos car are we tuning?
my criteria: i'll tune the car for MAX hp and torque on the street. i get to log everything with my wideband and obd logger.
strap the car to the dyno, do 2-3 pulls to get an average.
next, i remove my tune (all of it, injector scaling, timing tables, MIVEC, fuel tables, fuel cut, etc..). then he tunes it on the dyno. compare dyno numbers. then i get to log his tune on the street, AFR, timing etc... to compare in both conditions.
we can compare the HP/torque curves, as well as the logs on the street to see how the two tuning conditions compare.
whos car are we tuning?
p.s. someone else is going to have to post in there cause every time i post in MACs section he gets pissed at me.
edit* noticed its not in his own section. i'll post over there too then.
edit* noticed its not in his own section. i'll post over there too then.
----FROM THE DI THREAD----
Ok Kevin,
The entire point to my post is that I can optimize on the dyno what has been done on the street.
Example: give the engine the exact amount of timing it needs (no more or less advance) to achieve MBT. That is what the dyno is for (an actual measurement tool) as opposed to a logger, knock sensor, and accelerometer.
A/F ratios are a mater of thermal management, from tuner to tuner opinions on the proper A/F very. So how do you and I put an exact number on that? It is your opinion vs. my opinion.
You taking my tune and logging it with your A/F meter and a laptop based logger vs. a $50,000 dyno is a little less than favorable for you don't you think man?
Well Kevin, I guess we need to decide on the criteria:
A/F ratios are very subjective!
Back to Back Dyno pulls are quantifiable! (The dyno will tell you independently of the knock sensor that you are using the correct timing values)
We have to both use the same exact boost levels.
The same fuel, exc., exc.
What ECU? stock or aftermarket?
What interface software?
The point of my post is that I could take a car that had been "street tuned" (in this case, by you) and work off of that map and make it better.
What do I mean by better:
The exact amount of timing the engine needs to make MBT through partial throttle and WOT!
Increased fuel economy
The Safest Maximum Reliable Power
I think, Danny elected his car!
Ok Kevin,
The entire point to my post is that I can optimize on the dyno what has been done on the street.
Example: give the engine the exact amount of timing it needs (no more or less advance) to achieve MBT. That is what the dyno is for (an actual measurement tool) as opposed to a logger, knock sensor, and accelerometer.
A/F ratios are a mater of thermal management, from tuner to tuner opinions on the proper A/F very. So how do you and I put an exact number on that? It is your opinion vs. my opinion.
You taking my tune and logging it with your A/F meter and a laptop based logger vs. a $50,000 dyno is a little less than favorable for you don't you think man?
Well Kevin, I guess we need to decide on the criteria:
A/F ratios are very subjective!
Back to Back Dyno pulls are quantifiable! (The dyno will tell you independently of the knock sensor that you are using the correct timing values)
We have to both use the same exact boost levels.
The same fuel, exc., exc.
What ECU? stock or aftermarket?
What interface software?
The point of my post is that I could take a car that had been "street tuned" (in this case, by you) and work off of that map and make it better.
What do I mean by better:
The exact amount of timing the engine needs to make MBT through partial throttle and WOT!
Increased fuel economy
The Safest Maximum Reliable Power
I think, Danny elected his car!
Screw that! START FROM THE SAME BASE LINE!
Of course you can optimize a tune... you can optimize any tune.... there come a point where you just have to say its done...
AND he can "OPTIMIZE" the tune for the dyno on that day under those conditions... so yeah put a degree or two of timing in or something, but then tomorrow put the same car on the street or even back on the dyno and it will not be the same!
I also challenge that you can get more timing in on the street then on a dyno, its hard to "OPTIMIZE" every cell b/c you are on a street have to get the most out of the time you have there, but you have cooler flowing air unlike a dyno with hot stagnate shop air, which makes the IC and Radiator function better, lowering temperatures, all benefits.
Ill stand by it, which is why my car will NEVER be on a dyno, the street is the ONLY way to tune a car period!
I cant post on DI.....
Last edited by denver; Apr 15, 2009 at 08:03 PM.
