For one, that $50k alignment machine's manufacturer does not readily post accuracy numbers for their equipment. That in and of itself worries me. What is the best case error that can be expected from a properly setup, calibrated alignment system? 0.1deg? 0.2deg? (note this is not the same as the number of decimals printed on the alignment sheet). Then factor in how often the instrument is calibrated and how consistent the operator is. The literature for these machines tend to focus on the time it takes for a measurement, followed by the statement of "accurate." The majority of shops that do aligments worry about throughput more than a finely tuned motorsports alignment.

A good shop could take the time to get things as good as possible from that measurement system, but that still depends on the best case accuracy of the instrument.

Taking my time, I can get the strings within 1/16" of square to the car. For arguement sake, call it 1/8". Over the length of the string (about 175"), that's an error of 0.04 degrees on the conservative side. For a given wheel measurement, I can use my machinist rule and get within 1/64 to 1/32". Over an 18" span, that's an error of 0.05 to 0.1degrees. So worst case my toe is off by 0.14 degrees. My camber gauge is accurate to 0.1 degrees.

Enough backup for my statement?

 

That whole first part of your statement is all speculative.

You don't know what the accuracy of their equipment is.
You don't know how often it is calibrated.
You don't know how competent (or incompetent)/consistant the operator is ( i do. He is VERY competent and consistant!!!) .
That is a lot of assumptions to form an opinion on.

Lets play devils advocate here... assuming their equipment is fully calibrated, has an accuracy of less than .01* and the operator is fully trained and very competent. How accurate would an alignment from that machine be? I would say more so than doing it the old fashion way, wouldn't you agree?

Not saying the way you do or don't do it is or isn't correct, but not everyone wants to spend hours and hours tweaking their suspension like you do. I for one don't. I learned how to do it the old school way with string, jack stands, 2x4's & camber gauge, but the results I got were no better than what I get @ RT for a fraction of the time and aggravation.

How the car behaves on the track is proof, to me at least, that their equipment is working as designed and they know exactly how to use it.

 

The Hunter machines were like $100000 I thought. Anyhow they are better from my experience for Autocross. No one actually takes the time to truely do the alignment right, that's why it is beneficial to do it yourself. They get you within a range, not always exact. Plus how do you know there mega dollar machine is calibrated correctly, from what I understand that has to be done periodically. Is DIY alignment easy, absolutely not but it is beneficial from the standpoint of no one does a better job on your car than you.

With that said I will do my own and you guys can pay RT or whoever.

Funny that in reality my method for string boxing car is incorrect. I have been measuring from axle where kotter pin is, but front and rear are slightly different widths. So this whole time my rear alignment has been off that amount.

Proper way to string car is to establish center of car, match to center of pole then measure equal amount from center to string for each side. Whatever my ish worked good enough to win BSP Nationals in 2010 (I wasn't driving, Wilcox was )

Will master this string box thing next time I align which is very soon, all my Bilstein Swift Goodness is ready to go. Wonder how my car would have handled with the Ohlin Flags, my alignment, new power and me drivin. Guess we will never knows..

 

We race with an Alignment tech who works with a Hunter Machine, it is pretty new expensive set up. He told me there were problems with rack itself being level, that they had to redo it. They are not the end all be all, so many things can screw the machine up

 

I have an issue with the part I bolded. I've seen you work on your car. There are A LOT of people who would do a better job on your car than you. Sayin'

 

Can you align my car? I'll bring a ball of yarn.

 

Professional race teams use string alignment, just saying.

RT charges 150 for a coilover alignment, also just saying.

 

I'm sure some do. I'm also sure some professional race teams use +$100k alignment racks.

I don't know what they charge exactly, but I am sure its competitive based on what other shops charge. I don't look at the price, honestly. I just go in there, tell Pat what the car is doing and what i would like it to do better and he makes suggestions. We talk about my usage, tires I'll be running, tracks I'm going to and anything else that is important. The car goes on their rack, I get a call a few hours later that its all wrapped up and I pay them. Done.

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the string method. I'm just saying to make a blanket statement like "a diy alignment will be better than any shop that uses a rack" is a broad generilization that doesn't have much factual basis. again, sayin'.

 

Firestone has lifetime alignment for $150. Come at meh

 

Not a broad generalization, its just fact in my PERSONAL experience, yours may differ. Does RT spend endless hours on your car when they align it, surely not? If they did they would be out of business.
I am not saying RT doesn't do a good job, I am sure they do yours well. What Shoe and myself are saying is that if you do your own you "should" have better results just from taking your good old time to make sure its right. Put the time into leveling the surface you are working on, putting 200 lbs. of weight in my drivers seat, triple checking ride heights, camber toe etc.

My last point is I went to a race shop to get my car aligning on a hunter machine from a place that knows what they are doing. They are well known in this area and well know in racing. They f'ed my alignment to no end, did it their way, said they couldn't get me the camber I wanted etc. etc. - all not true. The other place I went to has the alignment machine and the tech is a guy we race with. Even there with me over his shoulder the car was not very good. It wasn't until I went to Corey's house and he aligned car is when I was finally on right track. Proof wasn't fantasy, but in my Autocross times and the overall car feel.

So I base my comment on personal experience, I have had no luck in getting my racecar aligned at any shop. It always seems to be better when I or someone I trust does it with the old string and measuring tape.

All that said if you are happy and you know it clap your hands!

 

Bet you would drop a second or two off your domination lap times if your car got a real alignment! Firestone quality at $150 for life ...

 

Marc, lets do your alignment here one time this season and maybe you could compare car feel and lap times at a track you ran with your shop alignment. That would be a good test and maybe shed some light on which is really better.
You figure out your settings and ride heights and we will just make sure you actually are set up that way. Funny if you started measuring and noticed things were off.

Do these alignment shops add weight to driver seat, check air pressure in tire prior to aligning car? I hope so because if not then you already wasted your $.

 

Mike, we can do your experiment if you want. All by bolts are paint marked so it will be easy to tell if anything moved from my last alignment (two weeks ago). Get your car on the road first then we'll talk.

to answer your questions, yes, rt does make sure air pressure is correct and add weight for the driver. All things a good shop should do.

I know the shop you are speaking off about messing your alignment up. From what I know about them, unless you are sponsored by them or paying mucho $ for them to setup your car they don't really give two ****s.

 

all this all talk about alignment domination and i don't see none of you fools use it at the track. where you at B

 

I have no problems with RT, and pat does a great job on my alignments in the past. I'm only point out that they charge for their work, there's not doubt. Corner balancing at RT is 400, just saying.